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Thread: The Lioness

  1. #21
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Re the heraldry. Well Kenneth, you actually jumped the gun by putting lions on the device for Sendoure. I have not thought hard on this one, but I was thinking there should be two arms. The first would be her father's which she would inherit (presuming that she is an only child or something, and that is why she gets full inheritance). The second would be the symbol used by Ilia's Pride, which may well be an aspect of her device.

    Her father was a commander in the Emir's cavalry and ran a horse stud, but that obviously doesn't involve lions. Perhaps a "Man on lion" charge or something. Doesn't quite have to be perfectly matching common European charges.

    Other options are lion's head, lion's forearm holding a weapon, lion rampant, passant, courant (if that can be done) etc etc.

    Sorontar

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    We could move the Sendoure arms to Ilia's Pride. If we're going to have a lion theme for an erhshegh it would make sense to do something else for Sendoure.

  3. #23
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Looked through the heraldry you have made and there are lots of full-bodied lions. Perhaps Ilia's Pride can have two or three lions, or two lions combattant holding a heart. And the Lioness could have have a Lion rampant holding a lance/spear (a link to cavalry with her father). And then, yes I would change Sendoure unless the lions had some significance.

    The other Lions of note are Gerold Moergen (the Lion of the East) and the Lion Throne of Aftane (now ruled by the Red Kings). Dhoesone has the Lion and the Wolf as two different comunities. None of these have been given lion related arms.

    As for the Shrine of the Hand and Heart, I would have something like an open palm with a red heart upon it. Perhaps the palm could be black but the heart and field gold, or maybe red field and heart on gold hand. Yes this is a break from "Silver harp against a red flame" but this might be appropriate to the background. Alteratively, the hand and heart could replace the silver harp.

    Sorontar

  4. #24
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    heraldry

    Thanks Kenneth. That is what I was meaning for the Pride and Lioness. I can already picture a Khinasi styled version and it goes nicely. Yes, the heart is a bit sickly romantic but we are talking about the unit of a hero who worships the Goddess of Love and Passion and for whom the heart is a major symbol in her history and her line of thinking.

    But I am curious why you didn't make the lion for the Lioness/her father Or? Would that conflict with an existing device so you picked argent instead?

    Any thoughts on what could be done for the Shrine of the Hand and Heart? How close to Laerme's normal symbol do you think it should be, given its level 0 status and that fact that it is not the mainstream church?

    Sorontar.

  5. #25
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I'm not sure the heart is a romantic symbol in heraldry. The Douglas arms have a man's heart, for instance.

    Since I made Ilia's Pride lions Or, I made the Lioness' Argent.

    For the Shrine of the Heart, an open palm with a red heart upon it sounds great. Gold field, black hand, red heart seems fine to me.

  6. #26
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    My concern with the heart on hand was 1) Kriesha already uses a hand, though a white one 2) It is colour on a colour, not good for European heraldry, but may be fine for fictional stuff.
    So nothing major. Just minor concerns.

    You're the heraldic chief amongst us. Whatever works for you.

    Sorontar.

  7. #27
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Especially in cases of black on red, there are two examples of such, Albania and Pamplona.

    In our case, we have a pair of charges effectively requiring that one has to come into conflict with the field.

  8. #28
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    I get you now re your comments on colours. My original idea was the palm facing the viewer like for Kriesha and the arms for Ulster, but the one you have done is very nice. I don't mind the flame either. It helps the link to Laerme.

    I'll rename it though to "Image:Shrine of the Hand and Heart.png", since it was named in remembrance of Ilia placing his hand on Sharani's heart as he died. All romantic symbolism but the action was an epiphany to Sharani and strengthened changed her outlook on life as being a matter where the hand must work with the heart, and the heart governs the mind.

    And later, Laerme guided her hand with the weapon to Prakhin's heart, which ended up making her the ehrshegh she is today.

    Symbolism always fits in a medieval fantasy world. That's why the beast names of the Awn/Ehrshegh are just *so* right.

    Sorontar

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