dundjinnmasta's Birthright 4e Conversion Thread

[kgauck]

Mechanical differences can be helpful, but the cultural differences are mostly role play.

[Green Knight]

That is one decision that I am struggling on at this moment which is whether to force the humans to use their +2 mod in a culture related stat and define their free skill OR make five completely new races based on the human subraces. I am leaning towards the first because building a new race can certainly be a daunting task! It took me quite a few hours to get Sidhelien together but that was my first race to ever build in 4e.

The versatile +2 stat bonus for humans...and their other abilities...makes the race very versatile. If you take that away and replaced it with something fixed, then you're seriously undermining the whole racial concept.

[kgauck]

The notion of humans as Mr. Versatility is a concept that belongs in vanilla D&D, not BR.

[bbeau22]

To take it a step further. To keep true to 4th edition.

- Keep the basic human set up as is. But to further seperate the different types of humans offer regional feats that humans have access to depending on where they are from. Create say 2 or 3 regional feats per area.

Make their starting feat a choice of whatever regional feat they have access to. They have the option to take the other regional feats at any point in their adventuring life or not at all.

[Wilenburg]

after taken a quick skim through the new forgotten realms player's guide, Here is an idea to deal with the humans
1) make each of the humans a different race (which I think is the best approach)
2) to make each of the races of humans different is buy using backgrounds to flesh put a paticurlar area avanil gets a list of feats which are specific for avanil and so on.
3) this can be done to the none human realms as well
4) humans should be treated differently from the core books.

[irdeggman]

The notion of humans as Mr. Versatility is a concept that belongs in vanilla D&D, not BR.

I agree totally.

[Sir Tiamat]

I agree totally.

The versatility of Humans is part of the game balance. The other Races get a fixed +4


If I were to run a 4th campain I would fix the scores for most NPC's, but allow the floater for PC characters and some NPC's... For example, Anuireans have a tendency towards wisdom, but some individuals have other strenghts...

[kgauck]

Why is this not true for elves, dwarves, halflings, goblins (a race that certainly looks diverse), or anyone else? If ever humans were ready to wear hats in a setting, BR would be that setting.

So I will ask, is this a PC's are special situation, where if you did an elf campaign you might allow free floating bonus? Or allow Sidhelien to select either elves or eladrin?

Or is this a humans are special type of thing?

I'm perfectly happy to dispense with tropes and declare that all Brecht are not nautical guilders who are basically Han Solo variations who never abandon luck, wealth, and smuggling. But why then re-impose the trope of versatility on all humans? IMC, guilders wear their hat as lucky, merchant scoundrels, but actual Brecht you encounter often subvert the trope. Brecht nobles who are fighters on horseback, or scholarly wizards (Brecht wearing Anuirean and Khinasi hats respectively!) are common as encounters, especially when outside of Brechtur.

But as much as I like to subvert tropes, I don't want to discredit them. While not all Brecht are rapier wielding rogues, they aren't bastard sword wielders either. I don't go from one of the lightest to one of the heaviest swords.

I'm not a fan of mechanical fixes that force tropes, but I'm not against them either. What I do not want is that elves, dwarves, et al are given mechanical hats and humans are mechanically versatile. I'd rather see Brecht have a +2 Dex and use that creatively (more than just rapiers) than see Brecht be "versatile humans" and select any bonus to create any character type.

The versatile human is a hat just as much as hard-drinking, honorable, miner is for dwarves. Its not a game balance issue, its a trope. You can balance Brechts against Anuireans, dwarves, and so on with the right advantages for each of the five nations.

[Rowan]

If you do force the ability bonus based on region/ancestry, then there should be two +2s available, just like all other races that have forced ability bonuses. For instance:

Anuirean: +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Brecht: +2 Dex, +2 Cha
Khinasi: +2 Int, +2 Wis
Rjurik: +2 Con, +2 Wis
Vos: +2 Str, +2 Con

I'd like to see a mirror of the backgrounds from Player's Guide to Faerun, but even more significant. Someone proposed having almost background classes to accommodate the non-adventuring side of BR, since adventure balance is lost if you force characters to sacrifice adventure powers for non-adventure (domain rulership) powers and vice versa (competing for the same feat and power slots, for example). I like that idea, though perhaps it is more easily related to the Templates (as long as they don't give hp or as many hp) and provide domain-playlevel powers appropriate to the background--Farmer, Frontiersman, Artisan, Merchant, Clergy, Noble, whatever.

[bbeau22]

If you do force the ability bonus based on region/ancestry, then there should be two +2s available, just like all other races that have forced ability bonuses. For instance:

Anuirean: +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Brecht: +2 Dex, +2 Cha
Khinasi: +2 Int, +2 Wis
Rjurik: +2 Con, +2 Wis
Vos: +2 Str, +2 Con

I'd like to see a mirror of the backgrounds from Player's Guide to Faerun, but even more significant. Someone proposed having almost background classes to accommodate the non-adventuring side of BR, since adventure balance is lost if you force characters to sacrifice adventure powers for non-adventure (domain rulership) powers and vice versa (competing for the same feat and power slots, for example). I like that idea, though perhaps it is more easily related to the Templates (as long as they don't give hp or as many hp) and provide domain-playlevel powers appropriate to the background--Farmer, Frontiersman, Artisan, Merchant, Clergy, Noble, whatever.

I am with you on this as a few others I think agree about backgrounds. They serve as a great way to help define a character at creation. I would even go as far as to say they can get some sort of bonus depending on the background. Noble might get a bonus to diplomacy. Frontiersman would get a bonus to survival. It shouldn't be huge, but certainly a perk for helping define your character.

If you remove the ability of humans to put their +2 wherever they want, then you would have to give them +4 instead like you listed very nicely above.

The other side that is important are regional feats or powers. As Ken said above not every Brecht is a swashbuckling sailor ... but if we put in a couple of well placed feats that only Brecht people can take, then it makes Brecht folks easier at becoming swashbuckling sailors but not a requirement.


-BB