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  1. #1
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Caliedhe Dosiere

    Discussion thread for Caliedhe Dosiere. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    What is up with the Chamberlain? He has the same CR as the Gorgon.

    There is the perennial question about is he immortal, and with a CR of 28, the answer is absolutely yes. And apparently, he faces danger and gains experience as often as the war fighting, scion slaying Gorgon.

    Of course if this is true, he is, for all intents and purposes, the Gorgon. Both seek to prevent a reconstitution of the Empire, and the Chamberlain is probabaly the more successful.

    I have been adding southern coast regents, mostly 5th level, adding to the group I described a little while ago, where the curve was highest at 6th level. Whether the Chamberlain is CR 28, or just 22, he's ridiculously over powered for a normal life-span human, and must either have a more normal number of levels, or be immortal (and presumably spent a lot of time fighting during the Empire).

    If he's immortal, I suspect he knowingly encouraged Micheal Roele to his death.

  3. #3
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    I prefer a mortal Chamberlain, and thus a less powerful one. However, equally interesting, in my opinion, would be to have the original Chamberlain (Roele's standard bearer) be immortal and act sort of like the immortal hierophant druids of 2e. He'd wander the world and would guide his descendants at critical junctures, aiding the Empire occasionally. He still wouldn't be nearly as powerful as the Gorgon, not quite so even as Rhuobhe.

    Of course, I like a similar idea for a reconstituted Empire. Whoever is strong enough to reunite the Empire, or one of his next few heirs, inherits Great Long Life and, while still leaving the Throne to an heir, goes off wandering Cerilia, still growing his bloodline. Eventually you could get several long-lived former emperors wandering the land. This is about the only way that the powerful awnsheghlien (the Spider, Rhuobhe, the Gorgon, the Magian, the other Lost, etc) could ever be defeated. And then you've got other continents and the Shadow World to deal with.

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    BR does seem to split between low-mid level NPC's and a few high level awnies/elves with not much in-between. The chamberlain was a split class in 2e which pushed him up the power in 3e considerably, although he was very powerful even in 2e (L12 fighter, L16 diviner), I'd say conversion to 3e should put him at around CR20 or so - not higher, the fighter levels should evaporate / become noble or scion levels instead leaving him, say, diviner 16/scion 2/noble 2 - and I'd seriously consider cutting down a few diviner levels, particularly if moving to a spell-point system that avoided the maximum spell level drop from non-mage class levels.


    If he is immortal, or at least very long lived, then either he is some evil nemesis who undermined and eventually destroyed the emperors (clearly Ken's view and great if you want a political foe) or given his apparent impotence in modern centuries, has some deep seated belief that he is unable / unworthy to rule.


    In the 'tired old man' view of the chamberlain, his levels would reflect very slow accretion of power (similar to gains of the elves) rather than regular heroics - at high level given the CR of most threats, it is only the 'once or twice a generation threats' which actually provide xp anyway so regular heroics are unnecessary.


    I'd consider the current brcs view to be the 'high level version' of the chamberlain, if using him I'd have him sworn to Roele never to seek to rule himself - but ever seeking a 'true heir' that could restore the empire he promised his long lost first emperor to preserve.

  5. #5
    Angelica made a good suggestion for multi- or dual- classed characters for my Pbem game, so this is how I handle such things:
    Highest level plus half (round down) second class*, equals class level
    [* or other levels, should there be any other classes]

    So under 3.x, the following would be (with examples following):
    Caliedhe: 16/12= 16+6= 22; eg. Noble6/Wiz5/Eldritch Knight 9/Archmage2

    Fhileraene: 7/7= 7+3= 10; eg. Ftr2/Wiz6/Abjurant Champion2

    Grimm Graybeard: 8/7= 8+3= 11; eg. Ftr4/Clr7

    Rhuobhe: 16/15= 16+7= 23; eg. Ftr2/Wiz6/Abjurant Champion5/Eldritch Knight5/Awn5.

    Hap Prechlen Thelma est Chauchen: 15/13= 15+6= 21; eg. Clr5/Wiz3/Mystic Theurge10/Ehr3, or for more of a druid bent, Drd5/Wiz3/Arcane Heirophant10/Ehr3

    [Abjurant Champion is from Complete Mage; Arcane Heirophant is from Races of the Wild]

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ericthecleric, that is the official conversion solution, and why I specifically mentioned a CR 22 Chamberlain:

    Whether the Chamberlain is CR 28, or just 22, he's ridiculously over powered for a normal life-span human
    But if everyone else is 5th or 6th level, 22 or 28 are both fantastically huge.

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    This reminded me of a fantasy TV series named Roar, with Heath Ledger. Setting is pre-medieval and there was a Roman soldier who slew Christ on the cross with a spear. He was condemned to live as an immortal and could not be killed. I don't remember how or did they eventually kill him, maybe with his spear.

    Similar can work for the chamberlain.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rey View Post
    He was condemned to live as an immortal and could not be killed.
    So you're suggesting that encounters with a dying god might explain unusual powers in the game context?

    The question at hand is not, how would we explain a Chamberlain with Long Life, after all he may well have experience with a dying god, Anduiras in this case, and may have unusual powers from that source.

    The question at hand is, do we want a character of this level (28, 22, or otherwise off the scale) mixing with the more typical 5th and 6th level character of the setting? Doing so has incredible implications. Or do we make the character a more normal character, say a strong 7th level?

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    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Anyone remember "Amber - Diceless Roleplaying"? Probably not. Anyway, this thread reminded me of that excellent setting. It had several versions of important NPCs...some less powerfull then others...perhaps something similar could work here?

    1. Mortal Chamberlain - Reasonable CR, give him som noble levels and some wizard levels.
    2. Immortal Chamberlain - High CR (but NOT 28!!!)
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  10. #10
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    On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:32 AM, kgauck wrote:
    > The question at hand is, do we want a character of this
    > level (28, 22, or otherwise off the scale) mixing with the
    > more typical 5th and 6th level character of the setting?
    > Doing so has incredible implications. Or do we make the
    > character a more normal character, say a strong 7th level?

    From a setting-design perspective, I think it`s clear that the
    chamberlain was originally made high-level so that he`d be an NPC the
    PCs couldn`t just push around. He has no army and no real holdings,
    but he has both diplomatic and personal power. And let`s face it, any
    number of gamers would think to themselves, "So there`s one guy who
    has the crown of the empire sitting around? We should just make him
    give it to us." Thus, a disproportionately-leveled chamberlain- it`s
    a flag to the GM that he can`t just be browbeaten by the players.

    If you`re the kind of GM who doesn`t need that, fine, but I think it`s
    a perfectly good default for the setting.

    --
    Daniel McSorley

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