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Thread: Category:Atlas

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Category:Atlas

    Discussion thread for Category:Atlas. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I've been wandering around the bodies of water, filling in entries on various seas, and using Atlas as the critical category. We have Atlas, World, and Continent, and I wonder what the best way to go forward is. I think by happenstance, we've been using Atlas when we don't use the other two.

    1) We don't want these three categories to have essentially the same information.
    2) Which one should be the master index of all things geographical?

    I think so far we've been assuming that Atlas was the master index, and I have some attachment to that idea, but I'm doubting its wisdom. Perhaps Atlas should only contain realms and domains, and Continent should contain every river, forest, and mountain range.

    Putting everything into atlas makes it the super comprehensive master index, but it also gets really large. Continent excludes Djapar, and Anduria, and whatever other world someone creates.

    Continent makes more sense for several reasons. One is that its very unlikely some will be searching for a geographical feature by name without any idea of what continent its on. Second, if we do expect expansion with entries on Djapa and Anduria (and we already have Anduria stuff) the natural hierarchy of small but complete, bigger and less complete, and total and most general makes the most sense.

    What is the best way to populate these three categories? What would you include and what would you exclude from each of these?

  3. #3
    Why not put everything under the title of Atlas. Then have a tree for the others undeaneath.

    Atlas
    Contenants
    Regions
    Countries

    Bodies of water that are larger than anyone one country would be listed under region with a nice description there. Anything smaller can be listed within the country description.

    -BB

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    I like Atlas too. But, as you say, there has to be a distinction. I was thinking like this:

    World: Aebrynis
    Category: Atlas
    (Continent: Cerilia, Aduria, Djapar, Thaele, ...)
    Geographical: Mountain, river, sea, ...
    (Region: Khinasi, Mor-Atha,...)
    (Domain: ....)

    If you have a sea, just skip Continent, Region and Domain. If it's region or continent bound, then add them. If it's not a geographical feature, then skip that and go to domain or whatever..

    As for wiki,
    World can have:
    Atlas, which has:
    Continent or Geographical (that is not continent bound)
    Region or Geographical (that is not region bound)
    Domain or Geographical...

    Does this sound complicated?
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I have some questions. By a "tree" are you referring to a hierarchy of categories? If not, what?

    Shouldn't similar types of geographical features be found at the same level of category, despite whether one occurs with one domain and another with several? So that when a person goes looking for a river, all rivers are listed, rather than having some rivers in domain categories, some rivers in region categories, and some rivers (like the Ruide, which flows through the Rjurik Highlands and Anuire) bumped up to continent level?

    Domains certainly might include very small geographical features, like a single mountain, a town, or a swamp. As long as a reader can predict where to look for the next one.

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    Yes, a tree is supposed to be a hierarchy of categories.

    A hierarchy for this I had in mind was to be grouped within continents, regions, or perhaps domains. And also a general group like oceans, seas, maybe islands that don't belong into any of those.
    But, the idea of grouping them together without being tied to a location or region sounds OK.

    Where to put them?
    I'll try and think of some ideas.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

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    OK, how about this:

    1. World is divided into Continents, Geography (or some other name) and Organizations.

    2a. Continents are divided into Regions (Anuire, Vosgaard, ...), Subregions (Northern Marches, Taelshore,...), Domains, Provinces, Locations/Settlements. Exceptions: Imperial city, without domain or province.

    2b.Organizations are divided into Holdings (and other), holdings into Guilds, Temples, etc.

    Organizations are separated because they are not always tied to a location, province or domain.

    2c. Geography could be divided into seas, rivers, and so on, but you'd have to name all of the geographical features. Also, you can avoid naming any of these and put them all together under geography. Downside is: with more continents you get it all mixed up.
    These can be then marked as General or Continent based.

    And then, the same thing could go for Organizations. If all continents are put together, there could be an extensive list. Maybe they, too, need to be put under each of the continents?
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    My vote is pretty much continuing what has been done so far:

    Atlas:
    * Races, World, Religion
    * everything within all of the sub and subsubsub categories

    Races
    * Awn/Ehrsghlien, NPCs, character classes, other monsters

    World:
    * Continents, Landmarks, Weather
    * Shadow World, Aebyrnis, any other Birthright worlds designed
    * e.g. World: Aebrynis, Shadow World are world categories. Continent:Aduria is a member of World:Aebyrnis.

    Continents:
    * Aduria, Cerilia, Djapar etc
    * all regions are members of these categories
    * e.g. Region:Khinasi is a member of Continent:Cerilia

    Regions:
    * Khinasi, Anuire, Brechtur etc
    * all domains within part of these regions are members
    * e.g. Domain:Roseone is a member of Region:Anuire

    Landmarks (**NEW**)
    * Waterways, Mountains, Forests, Deserts, Plains
    * we might also want to include Cities?

    so Roesone is Atlas, World: Aebyrnis, Continent:Cerilia, Region:Anuire, Domain:Roesone

    The Maesil River is Atlas, World:Aebyrnis, Continent:Cerilia, Landmark:Waterway.

    I am still debating about what to do with organisations. They are so tightly bound to Domains that I don't think they need their own category. Likewise with holdings. If you want to know about the Temple holdings of Haelyn, you look at Temple:Haelyn and look at its Domain subcategory members. Any holdings that have their own page will just be ordinary members (and members of the appropriate Domain category). I can't see the need for a more general category for all religions. A general one could be made for sources and guilds though. Not sure about law holdings.

    And not everything needs to be a member of its own category and a member of all classes above in the hierachy. This has normally been done for geographical things but it shouldn't be done for NPCs etc.
    i.e. Darien Avan only needs to be in Category:NPC and Category:domain:Avanil, but not Races, Region, Continent, World... and perhaps not Atlas.

    Sorontar
    Last edited by Sorontar; 07-18-2008 at 12:35 AM. Reason: stop smiley

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    I like this one.

    Just a few remarks.

    Landmarks sound OK, but these are only "land" marks, you also need seamarks, to include oceans, seas and islands. Also, under landmarks I'd file only natural ones, and leave the artificial tied to domain or province (e.g. cities). This goes away from the definition of a landmark and seamark, as they are bound to artificial entities.

    I don't think all organizations are so tightly tied to domains. As for holdings, one church can be spread throughout the region, guild especially. There is no real profit from trade if you bury yourself into a single domain.

    Law holdings have no names and are not actually organizations, but rather influence of a regent. Also, they don't have names. Same goes for the sources.
    Though, we can talk about Darien Avan's law holdings and Swordmage's sources.
    Rey M. - court wizard of Tuarhievel

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rey View Post
    I don't think all organizations are so tightly tied to domains. As for holdings, one church can be spread throughout the region, guild especially. There is no real profit from trade if you bury yourself into a single domain.

    Law holdings have no names and are not actually organizations, but rather influence of a regent. Also, they don't have names. Same goes for the sources.
    Though, we can talk about Darien Avan's law holdings and Swordmage's sources.
    Temples are domains. Any organization that has holdings are domains. Domains with land are realms.

    Law holding domains exist. Melisande Reaversbane has an all law holding domain which goes by the name of the Royal Navy of Muden. Throughout Rjurik there are jarls that have nothing but law holdings. Those would go by the names of the provinces the jarl has, as opposed to the whole realm. Source domains are also separate organizations and should have their own pages.

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