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Thread: Lending Support

  1. #21
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

    I am confused. Are you for or against having provinces have influence? If you are against it, please back up your position and not weasel out of it by saying if you don't like it don't do it. Maybe we would like it if we understood the reasoning behind it better.
    Personally, I'm against. Thus, I have made an explanation that justifies provinces not having influence. This is contrary to "canon", that I know.

    If you don't like the tought of a figurehead ruler, then I think provinces should be able to have influence. And yes, then both province and holdings should apply.

    That was clear enough I think? :)
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #22
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Orginally posted by Chioran

    G.K. If you want to get rid of it because you feel that it is excessive, then do it just for that reason. I dno't see why you have to puzzle through some other explanation. I would expect the players to be upset about this though. That not withstanding I really believe that it is inaccurate to say that prvince rulers wield no influence.
    My thinking
    Problem = excessive
    Solution = remove it
    Implementation = 1. change the rules 2. make up an explanation that sounds reasonable. That way players aren't offended.

    I suppose most players believe that province rulers should have some influence. I do too in a way, but not along the lines of simply adding and subtracting the province level.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  3. #23
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    I understand what you are doing green knight, although by your explanation aren't you saying all province leaders are figureheads? this seems a bit unrealistic to me. perhaps you need to improve upon your explanation.
    Lord Shaene Conlynd
    Regent - United Provinces of Haelyn

  4. #24
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    The morale of the story probably is something like this:

    -Province Rulership: The formal ruler.
    -Law Holding Rulership: The real ruler.

    Case in point: Taeghas and Darien Avan.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    There is still a lot to be said for figureheads and their influence. The Queen of England hasn't had true "Law Holding" like power for decades, yet if she were to attempt to use her "political" and "social" influence to change things it would have a significant impact. She may not have the military/lawa backing, but she could influence a number of things that take place in her jolly old England!
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  6. #26
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Mark is right on the spot.

    Lawgiver is also right, but is is only a matter of interpretation. The Queen is perhaps still the province ruler, and thus has plenty of RPs to spend. She might also have, as you say, considerable personal prestige. She might thus accomplish much by using diplomacy actions to get other to do as she wants.

    Lord Shaene is also right. Not all province rulers are figureheads. The question is, where does their power derive from? Is it from being crowned king, or do they actually have holdings as well, or at least some vassal/allies with holdings in their domains. If you follow my view in this, that is the way it goes.

    That said, there should be some additional benefits associated with being a province ruler.

    1. You get RPs, so your title IS worth something. Being the recognized ruler gives status and prestige. Which can be used in a general way to influence actions.
    2. The loyalty of the province is tied to its ruler. I would suggest that many actions taken by or against the province ruler (or his allies even) should be subject to a modifier based on loyalty. Using the basic low/average/high loyalty levels, hand out a -2/0/+2 modifier to various actions. That way, it is the people's faith in your rulership that matters, not how many people that live in the province.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

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