View Poll Results: Will you be moving to 4th Edition D&D?

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  • Yes

    26 20.47%
  • No

    66 51.97%
  • Eventually maybe, but I'm in no rush

    29 22.83%
  • Other

    6 4.72%
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  1. #21
    My group is thinking about transitioning simply because we have such little time to play. If this new system does streamline playing we could get a lot more value out of a 4 hour session than not.

    Again nothing yet ... right now we are just reading the rules. We will play with the new rules a few times as seperate adventures to test out. If it does speed things up then we would probably shift.

    -BB

  2. #22
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    One nice article about what video game designers can learn from 4e DnD design:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...o_thievery.php

    Pretty interesting given the whole 4e is paper-WoW posts

  3. #23
    I have been reading more and more about 4e and discussing with my friends what we think about the changes from 2e, 3.x3, and now 4e. I don’t want to be a doom caller or naysayer, but does anyone else feel that the marketing for 4e was aimed at recovering some of the players lost to MMORPG’s such as World of Warcraft and to bring in a younger crowd that enjoy the computer/console RPG’s? I haven’t seen a very good response locally, or even an interest in playing pencil and paper RPG’s versus computer/consol base games within the past few years. The gamers I do encounter are typically 25+ age bracket…leaning towards the mid 30’s, and granted this may be a local theme but with such a poor showing from the younger crowds at several of the 4e demos, does it mean that Dungeons and Dragons may be slowly dying? Those of us that remain faithful will continue to play and perhaps teach other kids (our own or others) to play but with out bringing in newer players…how much longevity does the non-computer style of gaming have left?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalset View Post
    …how much longevity does the non-computer style of gaming have left?
    I was thinking about this the other day. It will continue as long as their miniatures continue to sell profitably. The books provide relatively little profit, but are a "gateway" to buying miniatures (although the last time I actually bought some, it was the '80s!). When the miniatures aren't so profitable for WotC- regardless of what edition is "officially" current then- then you'll have to worry.

    ...But on the other hand, maybe a (relatively) small-print company would buy it, like Paizo.

    So the short version is, yes, the market overall is possibly declining, but you don't have to worry for a good long while yet. We'll have to wait and see.

    Personally, I don't like the new game. To me, it's not (A)D&D 4th-edition, it's D&D Miniatures version 2. (Yes, I have looked at the rules!)

    To me, it doesn't seem compatible with the BR setting. The Points of Light concept doesn't fit into Cerilia, except perhaps in the Giantdowns and Vos areas. And if the designers think that Damage Reduction and the 5x table is too complicated, what on earth would they think of people running domains? (That last point is rhetorical.)

    And what's also strange to me is the way that neither TSR or WotC have ever really tried a large push for expanding the market before, by advertising in related hobby magazines, only in RPG magazines. Nor did they seem before to make much effort recruiting fans of games like Balders Gate and Planescape into P&P RPG fans.

    Note: For anyone who does like the game, good for you! I really hope you enjoy it. It's just not my cup of tea.
    Last edited by ericthecleric; 06-13-2008 at 07:01 PM.

  5. #25
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    Is the market really declining? I thought it had been growing steadily and significantly since 3e. It was dying out under 2e.

    D&D is a gateway RPG. It's still by far the largest and most well known. Many of those who truly get into gaming then move on to other systems, many of them preferring more sophisticated or "realistic" systems. D&D is in this way a feeder for all of the smaller RPG companies, which the OGL also really helped expand. True, d20 third party competition is so prolific and fierce that it's virtually impossible for any but the established lines to make a profit, but the established third party lines are probably more successful because if it, again using it as a feeder for their proprietary systems (Mongoose, Malhavoc, Fantasy Flight, Eden Studios, etc).

    Whatever your disagreements from a marketing and design standpoint, I would be surprised to see (and welcome the information if you have it) that Wizards and its revisions and promotion of D&D have not greatly expanded the tabletop RPG market, in addition to being the ancestor of essentially all computer RPGs.

    So I don't fear for the future of gaming at all. If anything, I think 4e will bring a lot more people into the genre. Those who have stuck around a lot and/or are purists are likely to be so jaded and opinionated as to find and support their own D&D concoctions or non-D&D game systems anyway.

    I do think, though, that something like the Virtual Tabletop will become pretty common. I want a projector to use it and forego buying minis. It will also allow me to reconnect better with old friends and geographically-displaced parties.

  6. #26
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalset View Post
    I have been reading more and more about 4e and discussing with my friends what we think about the changes from 2e, 3.x3, and now 4e. I don’t want to be a doom caller or naysayer, but does anyone else feel that the marketing for 4e was aimed at recovering some of the players lost to MMORPG’s such as World of Warcraft and to bring in a younger crowd that enjoy the computer/console RPG’s? I haven’t seen a very good response locally, or even an interest in playing pencil and paper RPG’s versus computer/consol base games within the past few years. The gamers I do encounter are typically 25+ age bracket…leaning towards the mid 30’s, and granted this may be a local theme but with such a poor showing from the younger crowds at several of the 4e demos, does it mean that Dungeons and Dragons may be slowly dying? Those of us that remain faithful will continue to play and perhaps teach other kids (our own or others) to play but with out bringing in newer players…how much longevity does the non-computer style of gaming have left?
    I think you have pretty much summed up what appears to be the issue(s) here and the targeted market.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    ...I would be surprised to see (and welcome the information if you have it) that Wizards and its revisions and promotion of D&D have not greatly expanded the tabletop RPG market...
    I seem to remember something in Dragon a couple of years ago, or somewhere else, saying that the peak for D&D was in the early-mid '80s. I figure that that's the number of people playing.

    There was a decline until 3.X came out, and then numbers went up- but still not near the 80's figures, and have probably been dropping a bit since then. Sales figures might have increased in total, however, although I don't know. With the introduction of 4E, numbers will no doubt increase again- but to their 80's figures, and for the long term- who knows?

  8. #28
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    I'm with Rowan in that the market has been increasing since 3e. The d20 and OGL gave a lot of new air to the RPG market, created a lot of new companies and in general activated the RPG industry.

    Wizards have said that 3e sold out the first days, 3.5 sold out the first days too and it was a larger print than 3e, and 4e has sold out and it was a larger print than 3.5e. While they have published no figures, the fact that the 4e gift set has reached the top 10 bestsellers on Amazon (I think it reached as high as the 3rd position, but not sure) is something that tells the game has started pretty well.

    On other games I wouldn't worry much either, for example Whitewolf was bought by CCP so they aren't going to lack money any time soon (although probably they are concentrated on their WoD MMORPG right now).

  9. #29
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    I wouldn`t worry too much about the "shrinking" or "aging" RPG world. I`m
    also involved in board-wargaming and model railroading, and both of those
    hobbies have survived contractions, and will again. I just turned 40, and I`m
    usually one of the youngest around at meetings of both. I suspect manufacturers
    are quietly afraid of what will happen when the baby-boomers die off, as
    that`s a major element of their customer base.

    Lee.

    P.S. I`ve been having some 1st/2nd ed. nostalgia recently, but I doubt I
    could scrape up a party. Sigh.
    Last edited by Thelandrin; 06-14-2008 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #30
    I had contributed the growth of 3.x D&D in part to how the open gaming license was handled, making it possible for smaller publishers and even some of the ex-TSR staff to distribute gaming materials under a different company. I haven’t seen or read if anything similar will occur with 4e. Does anyone know or has WoTc made any announcements concerning the open gaming license?

    As for what you said Lee, I agree, a 1st/2nd edition game would be fun. It would be a challenge to find the time and players for a game.

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