Races: Human Subtypes

[kgauck]

I'd prefer no racial modifiers for humans.

[aluman]

A + 2 modification for the same race is too much.They are always humans,the maximum modification should be +1.
Vos should have a minum value in strenght.

Even if we have modifications it should be in line with whats presented in 4E. The base value (Score-10)/2 modifer is the same from 3e, +1 means a lot of oddball tricks rather than real utility, +2 to two diffrent attributes is the mainstay for non-human races in 4e.

Humans in the core book get a +2 floater.

[AndrewTall]

I'd note that some Vos at least should have +2 int, +2 cha/wis - not every Vos is a male berserker. Kreisha's priestesses and Rournil's faithful do not meet the 'brawny himbo' stereotype.

As to feats 1 feat is not a lot to spend, if the cost bothers your players you could always add a 'cultural' feat to all PC's, they beef slightly but not by much - particularly if the cultural feat is not combat focused.

Sigh, I'm half way through the new PHB and I keep wondering if it's based of lords of the rings or snakes and ladders...

[bbeau22]

I don't think the book is out around here yet. Driving me a little crazy ... not that I have the money anyway.

So do humans only get a +2 floater or do they get a +2 somewhere else AND the floater?

I do think it is important to make the races different in some way ... how we go about that is up to all of us. Paragon path sounds like a great way to do it but might be the most work .... but also be most compatable with standard 4th edition rules which I think is important.

Do any races get bonuses to skills? That is also a simple way to make cultures different.

-BB

[aluman]

I don't think the book is out around here yet. Driving me a little crazy ... not that I have the money anyway.

So do humans only get a +2 floater or do they get a +2 somewhere else AND the floater?

+2 floater only. As all classes have three abilities they derive power from (Primary for build A, Primary for build B, Secondary Affects) it makes humans a strong second choice for any one class.

I do think it is important to make the races different in some way ... how we go about that is up to all of us. Paragon path sounds like a great way to do it but might be the most work .... but also be most compatable with standard 4th edition rules which I think is important.

The problem with that is, Paragon paths kick in at level 10, while I am on board with culture specific (not race) paragon paths, if thats the only point where the Anurieans and Brechtur have real differences then the fluff is carried to the mechanics.

Do any races get bonuses to skills? That is also a simple way to make cultures different.

-BB

Yes they do, but giving humans bonuses to skills means taking away their freebie skill (Races get +2 to two different skills, humans and half elves get 1 extra skill which amounts to a +5 bonus to that skill).

That or we decide that keeping races balanced is for the birds, and build them with both skill bonuses and a bonous skill.

[AndrewTall]

That or we decide that keeping races balanced is for the birds, and build them with both skill bonuses and a bonous skill.

They seem to have cut down race 'specials' across the board - an alternative might be adding a minor power to everyone, with humans having a choice (but strong affinity to a specific power per culture). That buffs everyone a bit, but should be manageable if the power isn't too much.

I'd argue strongly for balance - unbalanced systems cause issues as the weaker PC's need a very strong player to compensate - the inherent unfairness detracts from the game system. I'd follow Ken though and say that balance is a game wide phenomena, not simply a combat one. As long as the balance isn't made up with a McGuffin power it should be fine.

[Lawgiver]

Ability score mods are ok, but a +4 swing seems over the top/uber-heroic, but that may be needed for 4E, I'm not sure. If done, I'd pick 3 of the attributes to limit the floater too.


I'd recommend free bonus skills and/or feats by race and possibly a penalty for each. This style works well in the d20 Conan system and gives a good flavor without being over powering.

[aluman]

Ability score mods are ok, but a +4 swing seems over the top/uber-heroic, but that may be needed for 4E, I'm not sure. If done, I'd pick 3 of the attributes to limit the floater too.

If you mean the +2 to 2 diffrent attributes that mainstay in 4e. Humans have a +2 floater in the base book. I suppose we could up the flaoter to say +2 to 1 and +2 to another, and limit along the save pairings (STR/CON, DEX/INT, CHA/WIS)
Either +2 (STR/CON) and +2 (CHA/WIS) or +2 to two of (STR, INT, WIS) for instance.
However if we keep floating I think +2 by itself is best period. Its too easy to accidentally allow powered up characters that way.

I'd recommend free bonus skills and/or feats by race and possibly a penalty for each. This style works well in the d20 Conan system and gives a good flavor without being over powering.

Well, if it was 3e and they had attribute +mods I would recommend -mods as well. However this is 4E, there is no penalties to attributes anymore.

[aluman]

They seem to have cut down race 'specials' across the board - an alternative might be adding a minor power to everyone, with humans having a choice (but strong affinity to a specific power per culture). That buffs everyone a bit, but should be manageable if the power isn't too much.

Actually, all races but Dwarves and Humans and Half elves (So eladrin, dragonborn, halflings, elves) have racial encounter powers.
Dragonborn breathe stuff, Eladrin teleport, Halflings can make the DM reroll a hit, Elves can reroll a miss.

I'd argue strongly for balance - unbalanced systems cause issues as the weaker PC's need a very strong player to compensate - the inherent unfairness detracts from the game system. I'd follow Ken though and say that balance is a game wide phenomena, not simply a combat one. As long as the balance isn't made up with a McGuffin power it should be fine.

Well, Balance is diffrent from 3e to 4e from what I can see. ITs not longer Balanced along power lines (IE, does Power X of the Fighter do too much damage) its balanced along 'can everyone in the party contribute' so while rangers might be able to do 2d10+str*2 to a foe, this is their role in the party, they are striker.

[Lawgiver]

If you mean the +2 to 2 diffrent attributes that mainstay in 4e. Humans have a +2 floater in the base book. I suppose we could up the flaoter to say +2 to 1 and +2 to another, and limit along the save pairings (STR/CON, DEX/INT, CHA/WIS)
Either +2 (STR/CON) and +2 (CHA/WIS) or +2 to two of (STR, INT, WIS) for instance.
However if we keep floating I think +2 by itself is best period. Its too easy to accidentally allow powered up characters that way.

If it's the new standard the +2 is fine. Though I'd like to see it limited to 2-4 attributes rather than 100% floater so that it actually fits the race. Not a die hard on the idea if it's changed to use skills/feats mods.

Well, if it was 3e and they had attribute +mods I would recommend -mods as well. However this is 4E, there is no penalties to attributes anymore.

I said skills not attributes.