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  1. #1

    Races: Human Subtypes

    Now, one of the things about BR that always endeared me was the fact that humans felt unique a Khansi human was diffrent from the Anuerian was diffrent from the Rjuven was diffrent from the Brecht, was diffrent from the Vos. Part of this was the +1 -1 that humans got.

    3E Made humans even more blended, and to keep the balance right internally, BRCS had to make some comprimises. Overall for 3.X BRCS did a good job at making humans subtypes feel unique.

    4E Balance changed, Humans in general are still generalists, but instead of the standard +4 (+2 to two diffrent stats) that other races have, Humans get a +2 to a floater.

    To bring back the flavor of 2E I think to start with, the easiest change is just to give each race at of +2's like a normal race. Humans would still have some of the versatility of their stock standard 4E counterparts (Namely, the extra At Will and extra Feat and Extra Skill), but it brings back the feel that 2E's races had.

    My Suggestions
    Anurieans: +2 Wis +2 Cha (Charisma drives the Warlord, which I see a lot Anurieans being.)
    Issue with this: Wisdom and Charisma are both Will Save drivers, its possible to give a +2 Int, but I am unsure if we want that. Maybe +2 Str or +2 Con.

    Brecht: +2 Dex +2 Cha (Charisma is the sneak-thief rogue favored attribute as well, which I think a Guilder/Merchant style would be more likely to wnat)
    Issues: +2 Cha seems to be popular with races, but Paladins, Clerics, Warlords, and Warlocks all have lots of abilities that key to it, and Rogues have a fair number sooo charisma seems to be more popular overall.

    Khansi: +2Int +2Wis (Status/control wizard)
    Issues: This hasn't been done in the PHB or MM stated races, has potential be abused with Orb Mastery.

    Rjuven: +2Dex +2Con - this one is the one I am most happy with race wise, it will lead itself to rangers which I see as prevaliant in Rjuven.

    Vos: +2Str +2Con - This just plain makes sense, though I think the Vos will benfit even more from this once Primal sources comes out.

    Issues: Strength and Consitution both help Fortitude Saves, I think over all though this won't matter as vos are going to be heavy into the defender classes. Maybe replace Con with Str for a strong two-weapon ranger build, but it feels weird to put ranger with Vos. Evne though 'ranger' doesn't mean 'good guy' automatically anymore.

  2. #2
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Humans are humans, even in BR. 4E makes this even easier. Instead of forcing a fixed modifier, let humans keep their 'floater'. Perhaps there will be more Vos than Khinasi taking the +2 Str, but at least opens up the possiblilty for a player to created a really strong Khinasi fighter if he wants to.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    This does seem to be more of a role playing issue, so sticking with the floater is probably best.

  4. #4
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    I would stick with the floater too. Later on if there are racial feats for each type of human type, those feats can have attribute pre-requisites related to the characteristics that are expected for the human type.

  5. #5
    I like vincente idea of having race specific feat to allow, and to keep with the floating number attribute number. and with each of the human races have a small selection of feats to make each of the breeds of humans unique.

  6. #6
    To me 4E, attributes really set the 'typical' more than any other edition.

    Thus a typical Vos could have higher strength.

    The feat idea while it Could work, actually removes the verstality more than removing the floater (If the feats are said must be anuriean/khansi/brecht et cetra), or removes the unique flavor the human subtypes (If the feats just say 'must be human').

    Furthermore, while arcane classes have only a couple of feats that they 'need' a martial powered class is going to still be spending 7-8 feats by level 10, and this means that if its a full feat tree it limits martial classes to 1 feat.

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    True, having national paragon paths is more restrictive, but it really makes far more sense from a world building point of view. If one talent tree for Anuireans is "knight", who else could learn it but

    1) someone from Anuire
    2) someone in Anuire
    3) someone worshiping Haelyn or Cuiraecen
    (any two of the three required)

    Because cultural knowleged requires that someone be inside the culture. Knowledge of cool Rjurik skills, like weapons specializations, special knowledge, require access to teachers and places to try out the knowledge.

    Someone does not learn Brecht fighting styles by trial and error. These things only make sense as culturally learned.

  8. #8
    Culuturally tied in paragon paths I am ok with, its the feats to give the human subtypes unique feeling that has me leery. First off, some classes have more feats they will want to begin with, which means some classes are less apt to pick up flavored feats.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The cultural feats just need to be competative, and not mostly fluff. Look at what really distinguishes the nations, and go from there. I would pick a combat focus and a social role focus, with the social role focus being more useful for rulers and the people they interact with.

    Anuire is heavy cavalry and noble lordship
    Brechtur is sea dogs and merchantile
    Khinasi is light cavalry and education
    Rjurik is archery and rugged outdoor living
    Vos is an infantry focus with a strength/endurance focus

    There were neat other things one could do to make the nations different.

  10. #10
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    A + 2 modification for the same race is too much.They are always humans,the maximum modification should be +1.
    Vos should have a minum value in strenght.

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