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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    I have problems with this one.

    In that there is no direct tie to being blooded.

    Being from a noble background does not mean being a scion. There are many nobles who weren't blooded.

    IM being noble has a lot to do with having "privedge" and access to things that others do not. This acces could come from tradition of the family or from being in a family that has a lot of money (i.e., the nuveau rich).

    Not all scions come from such backgrounds and not all people from such backgrounds are scions.

    To follow the regent talent tree one should ahve to be a scion, IMO.

    I just came back from a long run and was thinking about this. When I say a noble might have advantages of having access to feats and powers because of what you just said ... being privelged and having access to things other do not. Hear are some of my ideas .... really just stream of thought while running.

    I was thinking that each background would have one starting ability that they would get automaticly. This would give even a low level character some benfit as a ruler. Here is what I was thinking.

    - Noble -
    - Starting ability - +1 Court level. A noble knows what other nobles expect from a fine court and thus can predict the needs of others with better consistancy than someone not from a fine noble house. Their court is considered 1 level higher in all cases.
    - Feat Access - Expert Diplomat - Growing up a noble is taught to behave in all upper class events. Other nobles can sense if a person is uncomfortable or unfamilier in a situation and might not react as positive to the character. +2 for all diplomatic affairs that the scion is personally involved with.

    - Commoner -
    - Starting ability - Hero of the People - Many commoners and peasents enjoy to see one of their own make it big. Because of this a regent that came from a commoner background they have stronger bond with the people giving them a bonus to loyalty. All loyalty rolls are considered +2 higher than actually rolled.

    - Feat access - Lay of the land - A commoner was once friends with many people in the land and speak their language. A ruler with a commoner background gets a +2 to all gather information checks within their own borders.

    - Merchant -
    - Starting ability - A merchant understand how to make a business more profitable. They see opportunity where others see nothing. A ruler with a merchant background can take one guild under their control and it is considered one level higher for all positive aspects.

    - Feat access - A merchant understand the very competitive nature of business. They have learned how to apply the tricks used to undercut other guilds and apply it to other aspects of a realm. A ruler with a merchant background gets a +1 on all contest checks that do not include a guild.

    Thats is all I can up with so far. I believe their should be a Scion background also. This can apply to a blooded individual that is not only a noble but any other class. A character can only have one background so many character might have an option of taking either a noble background or a scion background depending how they want to build their character.


  2. #142
    - Scion -
    - Prereq - Blooded
    - Starting ability - Rulers that have blooded their whole lives understand very well its effects on non-blooded people. They have honed this skill over time to get non-blooded people to do more for them without even realizing it. A Scion background ruler gets a +1 on all rule actions because those working for him try a little harder.

    - Feat access - Know their own - A ruler that has been blooded their whole lives and understands its effects can sense other blooded individuals within a just a few seconds. When a character with the scion background speaks to another blooded person, they will know they are blooded within a few seconds.

  3. #143
    - Soldier -

    - Starting Ability - A soldier understand what it took to get himself motivated to fight and not surrender. As a ruler he can motivate his troops better than most rulers. Any unit on the battlefield that he is the general of get a +1 to all moral checks.

    - Feat Access - Make a Better Soldier - A ruler with a soldier background have a better understanding of what troops are capable off thus making training them easier. This ruler gets a +1 on check to train troops or making unit units for his land.

  4. #144
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Springfield Mo
    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    Not all scions come from such backgrounds and not all people from such backgrounds are scions.
    Since Bloodline provides its own useful mechanics (such as Regency) for governing, looking at class alone might just be useful. Not only does it provide for different backgrounds having different effects, but a non-scion who had a noble background still makes a useful adviser, lieutenant, or court official. A court is probabaly full of such noble figures, both blooded and unblooded, to carry out the many tasks of government.

  5. #145
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    London, England
    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    But now you've split what are esentially different planes (despite the name "world" into different "realms" and would then by extrapolation thus have on Cerilia have regents draw from realm power soutces.

    Now realm power sources is an interesting idea for realm spells and such but that too would apply to the Shadow World and thus mix two different power sources (warlocks and regents drawing from the same thing - so a warlock - regent would be double dipping). Mechanically this just doesn't work for me.
    I was thinking more about a 'patron' with whom to make the pact which would permit the channeling of true magic without harm rather than a power source - all magic is powered by (awn)mebhaighl afterall. It wouldn't be double dipping then, so much as single dip with the appropriate flavouring by patron type.

  6. #146
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    California, USA
    I`m going to combine a few ideas here:

    First, I don`t know if one could objectively describe the SW as
    "evil" or corrupting per se. I`m sure most intelligent creatures
    from the world of light would view it as such, but one really should
    consider that the world of light would appear similarly "evil" to a
    native of the SW.

    That said, Azrai would appear to have gained his power from the SW,
    and the nature of his power was/remains corruption and evil. The
    seeming is, also, a "creative" force, but also one that is
    essentially based on illusions or "lies" from the POV of most
    people. The denizens of the shadow world are generally of the type
    who embrace what most "light-siders" would view as a warped
    perspective. We assume that the plane of negative energy (back in
    2e) was evil and that`s the source of many undead. Undead are more
    prolific in the SW than the world of light.

    So on the whole there are a lot of indications of a fundamentally
    "evil" force or forces in the SW, but none are particularly
    definitive enough to say that the SW itself is fundamentally
    evil. If one were to argue that it is a slow, creeping sort of evil
    that can often go unrecognized and often looks more like a pragmatic
    neutrality than actual evil then I think it`d be hard to disagree
    with such an assessment. That is, it`s the serial murderer who is
    the "Angel of Death" doctor who kills the aged and dying in a
    hospital rather than, say, Jeffrey Dahmer. Or, maybe, the slow,
    impersonal evil of a massive corporate entity based on a culture of
    environmental destruction compared to the evil of a late 19th century
    company like the East India Corporation that had it`s own private
    army and slaughtered/oppressed natives.

    Second, regarding a 4e conversion:

    I`m not converting to 4e. However, I will gleefully steal from that
    system the things that work well for BR or that simply work well as
    game mechanics. For instance, I like the take on the skill
    system. Most of that can port straight back to 3.5. Similarly, the
    way 4e handles hit points can be retroactively used in
    3.5. Conversely, as a few folks have noted, I`m finding the 4e way
    of handling multi-classing to be a bit limited.

    I posted a little thing asking folks what kinds of things they think
    would be good to use in a set of rules that we can call "3.6" for
    BR. What things from 4e do you plan on using? What things from 4e
    are you certain you don`t want to use?


  7. #147


    Masterwork items:

    I know that BR is a low-magic place, and I like that. The masterwork items in 3.x seemed a great fit. Any thoughts on MW items in BR in general, since they clearly weren't in 2nd? And additionally, any though to MW items in 4e?

  8. #148
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    The d20 Wheel of Time setting reflected low magic (in terms of low magic items) by allowing a broader range of mw items. I believe mastercraft stuff could yield up to a +3 modifier (to attack and damage). I don't mind that at all, though I'm not sure +3 is necessary.

    I'd say varying degrees of masterwork stuff, along with special steel (produced by humans) or superior adamantine (moraskorr from dwarves) or mithril (from elves) could produce weapons of such quality as to contend with magic weapons, though without being magical. Same with armor and tools (instead of just a +2 bonus, perhaps it could range from +1 to +4).

    There is, after all, no need to require a magical explanation for high-performance equipment.

    Some examples that I've played with before:
    --For weapons, choose an appropriate damage type and scale an available additional bonus based on ability scores, like Mighty Mw Longbows do with Str. So hammers and axes could add in more Str bonus, Swords could take advantage of either Str or Dex, light weapons could use Dex, etc. This bonus could be added to attack or damage, but keep in mind that attack bonuses are more valuable than damage bonuses.

    --For armor, include some DR, if you don't already with a variant. Change up the movement restrictions on med and hvy armor for some well-made suits, or alter the max Dex bonus and armor check penalty more.

    --For tools, clothing, and other equipment, they could either generally provide a range of skill bonuses (lanterns to Spot checks, cloaks to Hide checks, etc.), or provide some other useful function (lanterns can Dazzle people, cloaks can give 10% miss chance in low light or underbrush).

    There was at least one Dragon Magazine that expanded mastercraft stuff for weapons and armor. It generally manipulated basic statistics like weight, armor value, what the skill check applied to, even minor energy resistance or damage.

  9. #149
    Those are good ideas - what do you think about using them in BR? with 4e?

  10. #150
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Both are a good fit. The same 3.5e bonuses for these items should work fine in 4e without conversion.

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