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Thread: Hjorig

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Being away from other Rjurik and surrounded by foreign peoples is probably a sufficient explanation for cultural differences today.
    This is wildly implausible give the six centuries that passed from dwelling among the Rjurik and today. I would suggest that six centuries is plenty of time for cultural change to take place, including becoming something different, becoming more like the Vos, more like the Brecht, or some mix of any of those.
    Tribes of Heartless Waste,DM's Guidebook,NPC realms,page 18 :
    "They fled the Rjurick lands across the Great Bay and found unexplored lands between Vosgaard and Brechtur. Here they settled, ousting the few Brecht and many creatures in residence".
    I looked in my dictionary and word OUST does not suggest any peaceful cultural mix, but non the less the cultural mixing did happen( i have friend whose grandfather killed his another grandfather in WW 2, and their children got married anyway). For second Hjorigers are posterity of Rjurick nobles and their supporters, that mean they were privileged class during the anurian rule, and they fought for traditions more anurian then rjurick. So my opinion is they were mixed with anurians, or at least influenced with them, at the beginning of flight.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Alexander ousted the Persian great king and many of his satraps, but the legacy of the Hellenistic kingdoms is peaceful cultural mix. Your own example suggests how this is so.

    Generally privileged classes don't abandon what they have for the unknown. So its unlikely they were very high on the social pyramid. Now its possible that they might have been on the wrong side of things when the Anuirean Empire fell, but that doesn't match the time line. Further, if they were mixed with Anuireans (as opposed to just influenced) they probably would have fled to Anuire to take up with their relations rather than undertake a journey worthy of Aneaus.

    Rather I think that a community (perhaps as large as a kingdom) was divided over the questions identified in the TofHW, settlement and the like, and that the founders of Hjorig represent those who lost at home. Unwilling to continue to live in the old style (perhaps enamored of some Anuirean habits, but one suspects perhaps more tempted by the Brecht) they departed to set up a society as the envisioned.

    Who was ousted? Everyone or the Brecht leaders? I would say the old leaders were dispossesed, not only the house of Gauren by their followers and well, and the new ruler named his closest friends and supporters as the new jarls. Much of the populace might well have stayed.

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    Sorry but I'm not a native english speaker so i took the word translation literally.
    The example i made is extreme, but it can explain the cultural mix with the Brecht.Other realms in the Overlook are not looking kindly on Hjorig, they are described as "bandit kingdom", and it is said that they repelled invasions of the Vos, the Brecht, the Gnolls and all sorts of creatures from Drachenaur Mountains. But present reputation of country could be result of degenerated ruler.If the ancestors of Hjorigers were mixed( or influenced ) with Anurians, they were still Rjurick and they believed they could make new better Rjurick community, so the migration to Anuire was out of question(cause in Anure they will share the same fate as Hjalson), and that is way they took "Anaeus journey" to the lands of Overlook.

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    Member Cargaroth's Avatar
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    There are a wide variety of reasons why the acestors of modern Hjorvig departed their homeland for the Overlook. Preseuming Anuirean involvement or brecht inter-racial mixing seems strange to me. Being the only rjurik nation surrounded by enemies, I would suspect that they would have become insular and xenophobic of their neighbours. Having been cut off from their spiritual roots, dark belinik like cults may have been a part of thier history. What ever makes a good story!

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Why interbreeding? Because its how the Vikings themselves did it. Without it, their own population would very possibly fallen until they were forgotten.

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    A culture that replaces the former 'top dogs' in a social community will almost inevitably interbreed significantly barring some huge racial/religious prejudice. For a lot of conquering races mating with anything female on two legs seems to have been the primary purpose of the invasion based on the genetic out-turn. It depends a lot on whether the Rjurik who came to Hjorig were basically a military invasion force (almost entirely male, inter-breeding high on the agenda) or the relocation of a total community (male and female invaders are present, 'invader' female population discourages the invader male population from routine miscegenation through reduced necessity and social pressure to maintain invader culture).

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Since it sounds like the Rjurik newcomers were fleeing from the Taelshore, I suspect that there would have been a fair amount of families who went to Hjorig. They would have initially found an unoccupied piece of land, settled and in a few generations they would have been part of the scenery. Somehow they managed to become the dominant political force in the area. This could have been due to many things. They could have been better traders, better military, or just better political players. Either way, they managed to become the regents of the area.

    I cannot really see them as invaders after fleeing from a civil war, which they lost.

    Sorontar.

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    Member Cargaroth's Avatar
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    Why not fleeing some internal dispute from within the Highlands? Certainly a very small realm would not have enough numbers from a failed coup to take over another nation entirely, but from a larger nation or groups of nations. Perhaps a religious movement or other political scism where exile has been chosen in order to avert civil war? I would love to know more of Hjorg's founding fathers and their movtivation to sail east to the Overlook. Anyone interested in some creative writing?

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cargaroth View Post
    Why not fleeing some internal dispute from within the Highlands? Certainly a very small realm would not have enough numbers from a failed coup to take over another nation entirely, but from a larger nation or groups of nations. Perhaps a religious movement or other political scism where exile has been chosen in order to avert civil war? I would love to know more of Hjorg's founding fathers and their movtivation to sail east to the Overlook. Anyone interested in some creative writing?
    I don't wont to be rude, but try to read the previous post more carefully, we are talking about that. And there is some hints in the "Havens of the Great Bay" and "Tribes of heartless waste", and from information in those books we know that they did not choose exile to avoid fight, they fought and they lost,and the result
    was their flight too Overlook. And they were not the fugitives from one country, they fled the anurian dominated part of rjurick highlands(aka Taelshore) and modern day Taelshore is made up of 5 realms in the present day.

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    Why not fleeing some internal dispute from within the Highlands? Certainly a very small realm would not have enough numbers from a failed coup to take over another nation entirely, but from a larger nation or groups of nations. Perhaps a religious movement or other political schism where exile has been chosen in order to avert civil war? I would love to know more of Hjorg`s founding fathers and their motivation to sail east to the Overlook. Anyone interested in some creative writing?

    I`m liking this, as I am reading on Aaron Burr right now. After losing his political capital in New York and Washington, he took off to Louisiana with the idea of rebuilding himself as a leader there. So, I could easily see the loser of some dispute (violent or otherwise) at home, taking off for new lands and settling down far away. That`s what Erik the Red did in Greenland (or was it Iceland?), after all.

    Lee.
    Last edited by Thelandrin; 05-13-2008 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Advert removed.

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