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  1. #11
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.

    from a definition of "hat":
    A culture with a single defining characteristic. Everybody is a robot, or a coward, or happy, or sad, or a gangster, or a proud warrior, or a corrupt corporate executive, or is a seafarer. That single defining characteristic is the hat they wear.

    Brecht are merchants, Rjurik are vikings, Anuireans are knights, and so on.

    The fact that a people is seafaring is only trait, and shouldn't be the only hat the Khinasi get to wear. If we devised a list of traits, Phoenicians would make them a pretty odd fit. For instance, unlike the Persians, who revered a sun god who brought enlightenment, the Phonecians principle deity was a mother goddess.
    Last edited by kgauck; 03-24-2008 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #12
    Special Guest (Donor) Lifesbane's Avatar
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    I have always seen them as somewhat Phoenician as well.

    Given that their settlements were in the same area as the Khinasi and they are not credited with war with the Khinasi I have always seen them as somewhat more tolerant of diversity than the other Adurian races that came to Cerilia.

  3. #13
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.

    f
    Me too. I don't want Anuireans to be French knights or Holy Roman peasants and townsfolk!

    But at the same time all of the cultures draw some inspiration from human cultures. And I have no problem envisioning the Masetians as something that could have come from the Med and surrounding areas in ancient times. A little Greek, a little Phoenician and a little Persian perhaps.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  4. #14
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Of course they need some inspiration. Its too much to expect that DM's will invent cultures from whole cloth. But we should not define cultures by a single characteristic. In this case, there are useful things to be garnered from the Phonecians, but that culture will have limitations and others sources of inspiration will be beneficial to round out some of the other aspects of the Masetians.

  5. #15
    Well, I don't recall saying 'Just Phonecians' so much as, 'I personally take more from the Hellenistic era, including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others, largely because of the Psuedo Greco-Latin sounding names of the remaining Mastean cities, and the Serpent being depected like a pharoah.'.

    Well I added that last bit with the Serpent.

    Anyway, whatever. Express an opinion, get snapped at.

  6. #16
    Senior Member The Swordgaunt's Avatar
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    The Brechtur are inspired by the Hanseatic League, the Dutch, and the mercantile city-states of the Italian peninsula.
    That is exactly how I have portrayed the Brecht in my campaigns. Living in a Hanseatic city, I must say they have been more Dutch/German than Italian.

    *back to topic*

    I have always imagined them as a Persian culture with strong Mediterranean connotations. However, as they have never been visited by any of my players, I have not given them a lot of thought.
    -Harald

    Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.

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  7. #17
    Senior Member The Swordgaunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.
    I found I had to comment on that one, after all.

    On stereotypes-

    They are vital tools that enables the human mind to relate to cultures and people that have customs different to ourselves. Everybody has stereotypes. Let me just illustrate this. I'm from Norway. Most of you have never been here, many of you have never met a Norwegian, and a few of you might not have any idea were Norway is. Still, all of you will have at least a few ideas about what Norwegians look like - perhaps you think I'm tall and blond? You might have a picture in your head of what you believe my country looks like.

    These pictures are stereotypes, and they help you relate to me, as a Norwegian. I have several of my own, about Chinese, English, Germans and most other cultures and sub-cultures I have ever heard of. It does not mean that by using a stereotype, I reduce the person to a hat. As long as I am aware that my picture of a Chinese is just that, my own stereotypical association, I can expand on it with every piece of information about China and those who live there.

    This is why I make a point of anchoring all roleplaying cultures I use, regardless of the game, in real-world cultures. It helps me expand it, and it gives my players a place to begin relating to it. If you let a Viking-culture become just the stereotypical image of a bearded berserker who enjoys nothing but rape, battle and strong mead, you have done yourself a great disservice.

    I might have interpreted the hat-comment a little too narrowly, but I'll take the risk of a slagging.
    -Harald

    Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.

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  8. #18
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSeanGuy View Post
    Well, I don't recall saying 'Just Phonecians' so much as, 'I personally take more from the Hellenistic era, including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others, largely because of the Psuedo Greco-Latin sounding names of the remaining Mastean cities, and the Serpent being depected like a pharoah.'.

    Well I added that last bit with the Serpent.

    Anyway, whatever. Express an opinion, get snapped at.
    You not only didn't say "just Phonecians" you didn't say Phonecians at all. You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSeanGuy View Post
    I'd definately make them more Hellenic, which certainly could include Egyptian elements pretty easily.
    There is a world of difference between "including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others" and saying that because of a single quality, the best analog is a historical culture most familair for this same single quality. So I would have thought it was very clear that my objection to "just Phonecians" wasn't aimed at you.

  9. #19
    Hrm.

    Dag, you're right. I thought I put Phonecians there. My bad, man, and I apologize. I posted just before yours, and it sort of threw me off, is all!

    Anyway, back on topic a bit: Does anyone use the Serpent? I know Aniure seems the most popular region, and Khinasi's a little chaoticly designed anyway, but he seems like such a cool villain.

  10. #20
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Swordgaunt View Post
    If you let a Viking-culture become just the stereotypical image of a bearded berserker who enjoys nothing but rape, battle and strong mead, you have done yourself a great disservice.
    All Rjurik are beserkers is putting a hat on them, using the Viking culture as an analog is not. Vikings offer rich and diverse possibilities, certainly much more so than making everyone a berserker and stopping there.

    If a culture has a hat, every member of that culture has one defing quality. That might be OK the first time we encounter them, but once we get in a position to start comparing several different people of that culture, its nice when we can tell them apart.

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