BR Wiki and Player's Secrets

[Elijah]

I like BRWiki but I really miss reading the Player's Secrets-style format, where the realm's information is presented to the player as if he was a regent.

Wish we could have more Player's Secrets-style downloads... Does anyone feel the same way?

[geeman]

At 12:06 AM 3/14/2008, Elijah wrote:

>I like BRWiki but I really miss reading the Player`s Secrets-style
>format, where the realm`s information is presented to the player as
>if he was a regent.
>
>Wish we could have more Player`s Secrets-style downloads... Does
>anyone feel the same way?

I like the concept quite a bit. I`d even suggest it`s one of the BR
techniques (in this case an admittedly minor example of BR`s
innovation) that predated what would become 3e practises of
addressing players directly in the 2nd person.

However, I do think the technique was problematic because they didn`t
just address the PSo text to the regent/PC/player, they also assumed
that the regent in the original materials was dead or had moved on
somehow, and the rationalizations for that were sometimes very
strange. One of the most interesting aspects of BR is the cast of
characters presented in the original materials. It always struck me
as a bad idea to have a game supplement that is meant to contradict
that and effectively neutralize the original regent.

The ideal would be for there to be a PSo text for every BR realm. I
could see PSo texts to describe even some of the non-landed regent
domains. The Western Imperial Temple, for example, could have as
much adventure/PC potential as many landed domains. Even those
domains that are NPC realms could be described as PSo texts. If the
"standard" of including materials to rationalize the transfer of the
realm by eliminating the regent presented in the original materials
were to be kept then effectively we`d get an awful lot of material
that cancels out the core texts. That seems like an awful lot of
effort to go to in texts that are supposed to be a more detailed
examination of a domain.

Of course, the idea was that one could simply ignore all that
material and play the original regent if one wanted, but isn`t that
always the case? Optional material can be altered with as much
aplomb as the optional material changed the original stuff. Why
include so much text under the assumption that it is a sort of
optional, optional material? Later there are hints and tips based on
those assumptions, and of course those hints and tips are optional
too, so we wind up with optional, optional, optional
material.... Shall we get into what that makes the players` and DM`s
innovation in that context? It`s just goofy.

Gary

[kgauck]

We'd love to be able to put domains into a PS type of format. Some of the entries, like Danigau, are done that way, but that's a lot of content to be created and posted. We've taken the basic Ruins of Empire format and adapted it slightly to fit the organization of the PS. However, its much, much easier to full a Ruins of Empire description of a realm than it is to write a whole PS.

Anyone can copy information from the various books up into the wiki: eastern Anuire, northern Rjurik, and most of Brectur, Khinasi, and Vosgard still need bsic entries. I don't think a single realm that has a PS, has all of that information posted. Danigau was created as a PS just prior the wiki got uploaded more or less as a PS to the wiki, so its probabaly the most complete realm description posted.

The wiki is only as good as the BR community wants it to be. If you know someone who has created content, an NPC, a location, or something bigger, encourage them to post it, or ask them if you can post it. I'm sure we all realize that if the people currently using the boards posted one thing to the wiki per week, it would grow at a fantastic rate.

Getting to PS sized content would be fantastic.

[AndrewTall]

I can see the issue on removing the existing regent, and accept that some P's were very weak in that regard (PSoT anyone?) but if a player wants to 'stamp their mark' then it's quite likely that they want to play a character that they have made themselves.

As someone who has tried to write a PS (about 1.5 done) I'd say it's a major learning process - but that it should be possible to write most of it neutral as regards who the regent is - a lot of the intrigue should be with the nobles, guilds, etc not just focusing on whoever is ruler. In fact writing in regards to the existing regent is probably easier for the most part as reactions will vary to the new regent depending heavily on who they are - put a full blooded human thief on the throne of Dhoesone and it becomes a very different land to if you put in an elven mage...

That said I would agree with putting in a 'handover' for the introduction and the court advice simply as it is hard to spell things out so simply in terms of who is who and what is what - the existing regent would know it all already and it would be a foolish advisor to tell them such things. Not to mention the fact that the 'loss' of the existing regent lets the DM indicate what might come crawling out of the woodwork for potential newcomers.

[kgauck]

I thought the first PS, Roesone did it just fine by saying that if you play the regent, replace Marla with your own PC. Some of the PS' make such a focus on the disappearance or death of the previous regent that you rather wish they had more to say about the realm in other regards. A who's who can be done without introductions. I prefer to avoid single focus introductions and go with John Laerna is a good, wise steward/ John Laerna is a cruel, avaricious man who controls the king with lies.

[ThatSeanGuy]

I thought the first PS, Roesone did it just fine by saying that if you play the regent, replace Marla with your own PC. Some of the PS' make such a focus on the disappearance or death of the previous regent that you rather wish they had more to say about the realm in other regards. A who's who can be done without introductions. I prefer to avoid single focus introductions and go with John Laerna is a good, wise steward/ John Laerna is a cruel, avaricious man who controls the king with lies.

Word. If you're going to put origional characters in charge, chances are your DM allready has a plan of action. Considering the nature of the Wiki, I'd say assuming that the NPC regent is alive, with maybe a letter like the one in Daingau has, is your best bet.

Speaking of PSes, is anyone working on Daikhar Zighun? Seems like an interesting place to develop, if only because it's a dwarf realm that actually has options outside of "Stand still, don't ask for help, fight endless hordes of orogs.".

[geeman]

At 09:07 AM 3/19/2008, Lawgiver wrote:

>How difficult would it be to convert the wiki content to a PDF that
>could be downloaded? Then you could have a reference tool to
>print/read with the core content of the realms in one resource
>rather than the separate modules.

There are several programs that`ll let you print into PDF format from
Word, so anything you can put into a formatted Word file should be
convertable pretty easily. It just takes a few minutes of processing time.

Gary

[kgauck]

The problem is that the wiki avoids putting data in a linear order, using links to bring readers from general to specific data. Also as a result, there is a huge amount of repetition of data. For instance the home page for each realm has a brief entry for each province, and then a longer entry on each province's own page. The more data a domain has, the more you have to chose between a large amount of data organized in a non-linear manner, or significant editing.

[AndrewTall]

As someone whose skill in word runs pretty much to 'copy and paste' I'd still think a conversion wouldn't take to long - I wiki'd Danigau in a few days from recollection (barring the edits).

The duplication issue of 'taster' and 'detailed page' mostly just tells you where to post the detailed data - as long as pages are 'pockets' pasting over the summary is no problem, the issue would be when pages turn into footnotes, and footnotes of footnotes and a 2-dimensional layout becomes difficult.

Let us not mention tables...

That said much of the wiki was converted from documents to hyper-text, if you want certain realms someone a have the original document. Which in particular were you after?

[ploesch]

It wouldn't be too hard for the computer to leave out the shorter version if a longer version existed. It shouldn't be too difficult to even keep the formatting looking the same no matter which field was used to write the data.

It would take someone with intimate knowledge of the WIKI program to be able to write the DB calls, as well as knowledge of converting the data to PDF.

It should be doable, but it could be expensive depending on what's available out there.