Dormant/Latent bloodlines

[irdeggman]

People have a strong desire or pull towards ruling in our mundane
world, so I think it has to be something different. Besides, does
every scion have the desire to rule? Aren`t there some who check out
of the process?

To me it is the bloodline itself that has a greater draw on a person's desire for power and rulership. Those who "choose" not to follow that draw are actually fighting their bloodline.

So while a non-blooded individual "desires" power and rulership a scion is "drawn" to it and "pulled" by his divine spark. How he approaches it is dependent on the derivation and ancestry.

>Now since technically bloodlines are specific to a "family", a scion
>may not know what his "bloodline" is. Rich`s lost files talk about
>the last of the Roele bloodline (Aquitaine) and that is something
>that is important to keep in the bak of one`s mind here. Bloodlines
>are not merely a game mechanic - they are a pedigree too.

Bloodlines aren`t just a game mechanic--at least, not any more than
anything else is.... But isn`t pedigree incidental to
bloodline? The Roele bloodline has a lot of significance, but if two
characters appeared in the Imperial City, one with a tainted
bloodline that was directly descended from MR after centuries of that
bloodline being "dilluted" by marriages with commoners or other
relatively low scions, and another character who was born a commoner,
but who had somehow adventured his way through the Gorgon`s Crown to
recover the magical essence of MR`s original bloodline where it has
lain dormant for 500 years, would the pedigree matter as much as the power?

Gary

Tell that one to Boeruine, his claim to the Iron Throne rests on his "ancestry" back to Roele (or so claimed). He has a lesser line (by strength) than Avan but a stronger claim "by ancestry".

No, I think that the ancestry has a much greater effect - although the situation you pointed out would cause concern (and most likely a strongly disputed claim).

[kgauck]

I think that bloodline can mean more than just power, and signify a way of leadership and other qualities of the dynasty. Who a scion is should be connected to their bloodline. Does Eriene Mierelen share her line's cool relationship with her people? Are Boeruines always soldiers? Avans always diplomats?

Bloodline certainly seems to pull at things like profession. On the other hand, wouldn't anyone with Battlewise seriously consider a command in the army? Some mix of the specific blood abilities (which seems to be fairly consistent across generations) and the personality of the bloodline seems to influence dynasties.

Tell that one to Boeruine, [...] He has a lesser line (by strength) than Avan but a stronger claim "by ancestry".

I think this means the same thing to the characters. They don't have the metagame knowledge to compare character sheets and acknowledge which character actually has the greater strength. While spells can determine these things, there is the nasty habit of his priests to say he's the true heir and my priests to tell me the same. Both Boeruine and Avan have to be closely related, so its reasonable to expect that their actual blood strength is pretty close.

The Roele bloodline has a lot of significance, but if two characters appeared in the Imperial City, one with a tainted bloodline that was directly descended from MR after centuries of that bloodline being "dilluted" by marriages with commoners or other relatively low scions,

Just because he's got some MR doesn't mean he's got enough for more than a smile and a polite nod. If he's mostly descended from something else (blacksmiths and tanners) then perhaps he should run a guild called the Regal Black and Tans. Half of all Europeans can claim decent from Charlemagne. I imagine a lot of people can claim a direct descent from MR, the problem is an Emperor needs both derivation and strength.

One of the most common ways of determining nobility is to ask how many grandparents are noble. Or what kind of nobles were they.

On the one hand is A, who has a single noble grandparent and three wealthy commoners. His nobility is questionable, even with direct decent from the noble grandparent. According to the regulations of the French army in the late eighteenth century, he could not be an officer.

Another person B, has a grandparent who is a great magnate, and three grandparents who are members of the lessor nobility. This person is well blooded enough to associate with the great magnates themselves, but is not really one of them. If they have a great title, they are still on a par with the new arrivals, even if their family name is ancient, its been diluted.

Finally there is the case of person C where all of his grandparents have the same rank. C is clearly of that rank.

So if our tainted scion is mostly the son of blacksmiths with some ancient ancestor who was a Roele, then he's basically a blacksmith. He's most of his ancestors are knights and minor lords, and one of them is a Roele, then he's basically a knight or minor lord.

This raises the question of whether bloodlines want to reform. Would breeding people more closely related to Roele eventually get a Roele bloodline, or do you just get a mix of what you put in?

If a house only married into houses with a Roele bloodline, and another house married into great houses of other champions of Diesmaar, would the first house be any closer to a Roele bloodline than the second?

[geeman]

At 06:20 AM 2/28/2008, irdeggman wrote:

>>Bloodlines aren`t just a game mechanic--at least, not any more than
>>anything else is.... But isn`t pedigree incidental to bloodline?
>>The Roele bloodline has a lot of significance, but if two
>>characters appeared in the Imperial City, one with a tainted
>>bloodline that was directly descended from MR after centuries of
>>that bloodline being "dilluted" by marriages with commoners or
>>other relatively low scions, and another character who was born a
>>commoner, but who had somehow adventured his way through the
>>Gorgon`s Crown to recover the magical essence of MR`s original
>>bloodline where it has lain dormant for 500 years, would the
>>pedigree matter as much as the power?
>
>Tell that one to Boeruine, his claim to the Iron Throne rests on his
>"ancestry" back to Roele (or so claimed). He has a lesser line (by
>strength) than Avan but a stronger claim "by ancestry".

...and yet neither have managed to actually claim the throne,
notwithstanding the strength of their claims against one another or
any other regent in the setting. That would at least seem to
indicate that pedigree isn`t as powerful as bloodline, and that they
remain related but separate concepts. At least, it is the conflict
of their relatively equal bloodlines that seems to be the core of the
issue rather than their respective ancestral claims.

>No, I think that the ancestry has a much greater effect - although
>the situation you pointed out would cause concern (and most likely a
>strongly disputed claim).

I`m sure it would result in a disputed claim, but how long would that
dispute really be in effect? The guy with the true bloodline is
going to be able to control and gather RP from a much larger realm
than the one with the pedigree by a few bloodline score points. He`s
going to win out sooner rather than later barring some sort of
intervention by adventure level effects or changes by a DM.

Pedigree is important in certain ways, but whether bloodline is just
a game mechanic or not, it remains both a game mechanic and something
linked to heritage. But that link to heritage is can specifically be
altered through investiture, making bloodline different from
pedigree. We have nothing like bloodline`s game mechanics to
describe the effects of pedigree.

Gary

[kgauck]

In the world of historical nobility, one's ancestors were only part of the formula for determining who you were. Other factors included who you married and other associations in your life (your liege, your mentor as a knight, even your friends) your offices, and your achievements.

But, this discussion seems like it might be struggling under the weight of not having made clear whether we're talking about pedigree in contrast to other issues, or pedigree if we hold all other issues constant.