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  1. #1
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    Questions on Domain Attitude, Occupy Province and Agitate

    These questions have probably been asked before (and I apologize for that in advance if they have) but I couldn't turn up anything in a search of the posts.

    I have three questions:

    1) Does "Domain Attitude" only effect the landed regent that controls that province or does it effect regents with holdings in that province as well?

    2) Who can use the "Occupy Province" court action? Is it only available to a landed regent wishing to quell a rebellion within their own province?

    3) Is the standard action "Agitate" something used strictly by unlanded regents to destabilize a landed regents province(s)?

    In short, I'm unsure if there are some actions that can only be used by landed regents or if there are certain actions usable only by unlanded regents that target only landed regents in control of provinces.

    I would appreciate the efforts of anyone willing to educate me on these points.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    All of these can be used by any ruler, no matter what kind of domain they have.

    Domain Attitude starts on p. 92 of the BRCS playtest document and go for two more pages.

    Anyone can occupy a province, but when its not done by the owner of the province its either very friendly or very hostile.

    Landed rulers should agitate to improve their domain attitude just like anyone else when it seems prudent. Putting down rebellions with occupation quiets a revolt, but it also lays the seeds for the next revolt. In the BRCS playtest document, occupying a province imposes a -10 penalty during the domain adjustment phase. If this is the only tool in your bag of tricks, you'll end up with hostile populations on your own as soon as problems begin from any cause.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for responding, I really appreciate it.

    Agitate - What you say about Agitate makes sense I can understand why a landed regent would benefit from the Agitate action. I'm left feeling a bit silly for failing to grasp this concept before I posted.

    Occupy Province - I guess with the action Occupy Province an invading regent (after he has eliminated the rulers armies) could use this action to occupy the realm and, if unoppossed, could slowly detroy the ruling regents laws holdings. (If he ever had any to begin with) Would this be the best way for an invading regent to conquer another kingdom? I mean, if the Domain Attiude of a province was already Unfriendly or Hostile towards the ruling regent then perhaps the people might welcome the invasion - as long as the invading regent used actions like Agitate to improve the attitude of the people and forbid his armies from looting the kingdom.

    Domain Attitude - As for Domain Attitude, I did read through the latest BRCS document (Chapter 5) but I am still just a bit confused on how Domain Attitude works.

    There can only be one attitude rating per province (either Helpful, Friendly, Indifferent, Unfriendly or Hostile) so, in general terms, the people are either pleased with their ruler, they don't care either way or they despise him. This makes perfect sense to me.

    My question is, how does the Domain Attitude effect the other regents that control holdings within that province?

    If they hate their king and the Domain Attitude of the province is Hostile, does this feeling extend to the other regents in the province as well?

    If a regent in that province with control of a guild holding Agitates for himself would this then create two different Domain Attitude ratings? Say, one Unfriendly (towards the ruling regent) and the other Indifferent? (Towards the guild regent)

    As I understand it, any domain can (and should) have a court, whether it's a Realm or domain made up of guild holdings. That said, if the "King" is loved by his subjects - because he has worked hard to make a good impression by personally defeating invading monsters, personally delivering food and supplies to the people after a natural disaster, etc. - how would the attitude of the people effect how they view a courtier from another regents court, say, a guild regent? Does the Domain Attitude modify the reputation of the ruling regents court only? If not, and this modifier applies to the courtiers or lieutenants from the courts of other regents within that province (like a guild regent), why would that be? Especially, if they have never done anything to earn the respect of the people to begin with.

    Well, long winded I know

    I see all of the hard work that was put into this site and into the BRCS project and it looks pretty amazing. I thank everyone (and I know the list is long and goes pretty far back...) that has put their energy into this campaign setting.

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Domain Attitude affects anyone in that "Domain".


    Now it should be noted that nothing really prevents a DM from running this at a regent by regent basis.

    Remember that Domain is not necessarily a province or realm but it is the sum of all holdings (and provinces) that a regent controls.

    Having said that - the default is to use a province by province basis and have one attitude for the entire province. This is for ease of book keeping, but if your group feels adventurous - make it more realistic and use a regent by regent attitude.

    At a province level domain attitude the "effects" on regents other than the province ruler reflect a "spill over" from how they generally "feel". That is if they are happy then they generally work harder and support anyone attempting to do something.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #5
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfrost View Post
    That said, if the "King" is loved by his subjects - because he has worked hard to make a good impression by personally defeating invading monsters, personally delivering food and supplies to the people after a natural disaster, etc.
    A king (or nobles in general) don't do anything personally. He should have servants or officials to carry out his will. A regal figure handing out food must be doing penitence for some great crime he has committed, and would frighten, rather than cheer the people.

    As for fighting monsters, its more a question of the monsters being stopped than it is that anyone in particular, like the king, did the stopping.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=irdeggman;43318]Having said that - the default is to use a province by province basis and have one attitude for the entire province. This is for ease of book keeping, but if your group feels adventurous - make it more realistic and use a regent by regent attitude.QUOTE]

    Thank you for the recommendation. As you said, the method currently in use does reduce the amount of "book keeping" but I do like the idea of creating an attitude rating for each regent for a bit more realism.

    That would also modify the way Agitate works, I should think...


    Kgauck - their are plenty of passages within BRCS that mention the benefit of having a regent personally respond to trouble within his domain rather than relying on others to handle it (hey, regents enjoy adventuring too).

    As for the natural disaster scenario I mentioned, a real world example comes to mind - Hurricane Katrina.

    Perhaps if Emperor Bush II had taken a more direct hand in addressing the issue (rather than trusting things to his lieutenant "Brownie") then maybe the people of Louisiana province wouldn't have gotten the impression that his administration was little more than a collection of imbeciles. Well... maybe his presence wouldn't have helped his cause either.

    Anyway, I'm sure that the people of Louisiana appreciated the help from the kings armies (U.S. military) and local law holding (Police) and even if the province had an attitude of Hostile towards their ruler I'll bet it was at least a bit friendlier towards these guys.

    Again, keep up the excellent work guys!!!! ...and thanks for the advice!!!

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Presidents are not kings. The modern age is not the one represented in Birthright. The world in which we live is not a perfect analog for a fantasy setting. There is a truism among historians that the past is a different country they do things differently there. This goes double for fantasy settings.

  8. #8
    When it comes to kings and rulers helping with the little things I do think it depends on the domain and the action.

    A domain with very little law holdings and almost all low level provinces doesn't have the money or the court to just send peeps out to do his bidding. He would probably have to take care of things himself at first until the country is proserpous enough to have a larger court. A good example of this is the Giantdowns. The few people that live in the towns probably would see some of the leaders on a regular basis. Giantdowns isn't a perfect example because the rulers are hidden but it is close enough.

    The other depends on the action. If you are a great warrior regent that has a monster attacking one of your provinces ... the people would probably expect you to go slay the monster yourself. If you didn't then I might apply a penalty to loyalty because people might think you are lying about your exploits as a great hero or too scared to fight something thus dimishing your stature in their mind.

    What I think the only real problem with comparing Birthright to the history of Europe in the Dark Ages is that monsters are real. Stories may romantisize
    heroes going to slay dragons ... but in Birthright that is a real monsterous troll terrorizing that village. So when it comes to kings, in many cases the King might be the strongest warrior of the land and the best to fight that monster. Certainly he has a responsiblity to stop it.

    And back to the topic. I typically do it on a realm basis for domain attitude but in the above example if the King doesn't slay the monster in the village ... that provice might drop in domain attitude because they are more accutely aware of the Kings ignorance.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbeau22 View Post
    A domain with very little law holdings and almost all low level provinces doesn't have the money or the court to just send peeps out to do his bidding.
    Here is where I think reading the rules leads one astray. The lowliest knight has a squire, and many will have a squire and a page. The most humble lord has an entourage of knights, priests, and other social climbers all looking for a chance to be rewarded. A count with but a single province has lords sworn to serve him and come to his aid, plus officials, all capable of doing something or other. And each of them, a patron in their own right, brings with them their clients. A ruler has call to a potentially large host. Calling the whole group would cost money, but single individuals looking for honor, fame, rewards, promise of future preferment might cost you little or nothing. A man who has any pretense to greatness will be flocked by such men looking to improve their place in the world. And then there is family. Bonds of kinship are extensive and can like you to many people, including your peers.

    One may reasonably look out at those who serve or wish to serve and decide that there is no man here for the issue that confronts the domain. But those cases are the exception.

    He would probably have to take care of things himself at first until the country is proserpous enough to have a larger court. A good example of this is the Giantdowns.
    Even a place like the Giantdowns, leaders will have followers. Perhaps most will be kinsmen, hoping to see the family's place in the world increase. Some will be friends. Some will be followers, men who have nothing to offer but their sword, who seek a patron to feed, clothe, and house them, for whom they fight and die. Such a body of men in the Downs would be called Huskarls, the free men who fight in your household. Not enough for a warcard, but enough to suppress bandits, or do many things for which a straitforward combat is called for.
    If your not a warrior type leader, you will still have kinsmen, friends, and followers of your type of organization.

    The few people that live in the towns probably would see some of the leaders on a regular basis.
    I rather doubt it. People will have distant and remote contact with their immediate lord. Generally you can only assume contact with the group of people immediately above you.

    The other depends on the action. If you are a great warrior regent that has a monster attacking one of your provinces ... the people would probably expect you to go slay the monster yourself. If you didn't then I might apply a penalty to loyalty because people might think you are lying about your exploits as a great hero or too scared to fight something thus diminishing your stature in their mind.
    I know that people are ungrateful of their leaders, but this is really ungrateful. Such a rebellious lot are nearly ungovernable and should be left to their own devices or made to know who their masters are.

    So when it comes to kings, in many cases the King might be the strongest warrior of the land and the best to fight that monster. Certainly he has a responsiblity to stop it.
    If the king is the strongest warrior, he's probably a very bad king. The person at the top of the pyramid should be mostly about leadership and making things happen, not the best line worker of the army, temple, guild, &c. Its more plausible to say he's the best general, but even that may not be the case. His job is to put the best man for the job on the job, not to run around doing the day to day work of the domain. The hardest working kings are doing things that only the king can do (like settling disputes between vassals, mediating between law and temple holdings, and verifying the loyalty of vassals. Its the vassals, officials, cohorts, lieutants, and followers who should be doing the business of the domain. The king just keeps them all functioning.

  10. #10
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    BRCS Chapter 5, pg. 13

    Regent domain action: The character expends the standard action for the domain and their own personal action to address the situation personally. At the DM's discretion, this can result in a role-playing encounter or adventure. Events such as intrigue, monsters, diplomatic matters, and assassination lend them selves particularly well to this approach. This approach has the highest chance for the regent to gain regency or loyalty. The DM must assess the regent's plan of action and assign a bonus to the event resolution check based on the regent's skills and actions. Excellent: +10, Good: +5, Average: +2, Poor: +0, Disastrous: -2.

    ...and again on pg. 16

    Character actions
    Regents don't spend all of their time ruling their domain. There are monsters to be fought, intrigues to be solved, castles to be stormed; in short, regents participate in the same activities as normal characters. A regent's domain doesn't grind to a halt while he's occupied with personal business, but it does lose the benefit of having the regent personally attend to matters.

    This is what I was referring to.

    However, if a regent wanted to take this approach I guess it would really depend on the type of campaign being played. In an adventure based Birthright campaign this method makes sense but perhaps not in one that focuses mostly on domain play.

    But back to domain attitude for a moment.

    Has anyone tried assigning a separate domain attitude for each regent within a province? If so, what was the result? If anyone has ideas on this subject I would be very interested in hearing them.

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