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  1. #1
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Taelinri -- The Game Mechanics

    OK, folks, for the next question about Sidhelien culture, I`m curious
    how people think the Taelinri should be portrayed game
    mechanically. A few questions:

    1. Are the Taelinri best represented by an existing character class,
    an entirely new character class, a prestige class or is it best
    represented by something like a series of feats and skill
    options? Is it something else entirely? Is it merely a title that
    should not be represented game mechanically at all?

    2. If it is a class or series of feats, are there any standard class
    features or feats that should appear in a class description? Are
    there any special abilities that should have new write ups?

    3. Are the Taelinri spellcasters?

    4. If the Taelinri are a character or prestige class, what skills
    should they have?

    5. Are there disadvantages to being a Taelinri that anyone can see?

    I have my own answers to the questions above, but I`m curious what
    folks in the BR community think. Any thoughts/ideas on this matter?

    Gary

  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Though I used a class for taelinri before, (wizard class design, druid spell list, plus elemental spells) I wouldn't want to ontologically comit to anything so close to 4th edition. I would prefer to remain open at this point and see what makes sense in May.

  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:37 AM 1/24/2008, kgauck wrote:

    >Though I used a class for taelinri before, (wizard class design,
    >druid spell list, plus elemental spells)

    A standard 1st level character class?

    >I wouldn`t want to ontologically comit to anything so close to 4th
    >edition. I would prefer to remain open at this point and see what
    >makes sense in May.

    I remain committedly uncommitted to anything inside or outside 3e, 4e
    or D&D in general....

    Gary

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    Birthright Developer
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    You know, I was never a big fan of the Sidhe in Birthright, but I
    don`t remember hearing the word "Taelinri" before. What is a
    Taelinri?

    --
    Daniel McSorley
    Last edited by Thelandrin; 02-07-2008 at 12:37 PM.

  5. #5
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    In a message dated 1/24/2008 2:37:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
    geeman@SOFTHOME.NET writes:

    1. Are the Taelinri best represented by an existing character class,
    an entirely new character class, a prestige class or is it best
    represented by something like a series of feats and skill
    options? Is it something else entirely? Is it merely a title that
    should not be represented game mechanically at all?
    I think if anything should be a prestige class, this should be it. Maybe an
    epic prestige class, though.

    2. If it is a class or series of feats, are there any standard class
    features or feats that should appear in a class description? Are
    there any special abilities that should have new write ups?

    3. Are the Taelinri spellcasters?
    Can be.

    4. If the Taelinri are a character or prestige class, what skills
    should they have?

    5. Are there disadvantages to being a Taelinri that anyone can see?


    Maybe that they have to stand outside the politics of Houses, give up their
    affiliations and so forth. That may not seem to be a disadvantage to many.

    Lee.
    Last edited by Thelandrin; 02-07-2008 at 12:37 PM.

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMcSorley View Post
    You know, I was never a big fan of the Sidhe in Birthright, but I
    don`t remember hearing the word "Taelinri" before. What is a
    Taelinri?

    --
    Daniel McSorley
    PS of Tuarhievel pg 19-20.

    Basically they are "teachers" and "councillors".

    With a role a lot like the druids of the Rjurik, IMO.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The Book of Magecraft has some things to say about Taelinri as well, (pg 6 or so) and they seem to be wizards.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    A standard 1st level character class?
    For me, elves are not wizards or druids, their spellcasters are Taelinri. Not all members of the Taelinri character class perform all of the functions of the Taelinri social class, but that's true for nobles, clerics, and other character classes that overlap with social groups. So I just merged (is mash-up more current?) wizards and druids, by keeping all of the class design (features, hit dice, skill list) of wizards, and then changing the spell list to be the druid spell list, plus almost anything with an elemental descriptor. After that there were a few tweaks left, like changing the familiar to an animal companion, adding the nature skills to the Taelinri skill list, but basically its a 20 level standard class (the only spellcasting class other than bard for elves) just like wizard.

    I am prone to changing how spells work while leaving the base mechanics alone, so I prefer for elves to favor enchantment, illusion, and summoning (while humans are more enchantment, illusion, and divination). The BoM says elves don't like summoning because of free will issues, so I just change how elf summonings work from being a compulsion to an alarm sent out to allies and friends from among the animals summoned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Gauck
    I wouldn`t want to ontologically comit to anything so close to 4th
    edition. I would prefer to remain open at this point and see what makes sense in May.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    I remain committedly uncommitted to anything inside or outside 3e, 4e
    or D&D in general...
    I look back on my 3.0 conversion and was really more like a 2.5 edition, a lot of what I was
    doing was thinking in 2.0 and expressing myself in 3.0. Part of this was because my source material was 2.0 and my game system was 3.0, but part was I had developed so many ideas in 2.0 that I didn't want to part with yet. Later I would find 3.5 ways to get to the same end without old school mechanics. The only thing I really have left over from 2.0 now, is that every priesthood still gets its own class. Clerical domains and feat selection doesn't quite get me the difference I found so appealing in 2.0 between priesthoods. Although, if I were to write this all from scratch today, I'd go PHB II and call them class variants, and who would know?

    I felt that 3.0 was much better than 2.0 and that 3.5 was so much better still, I was able to abandon almost all home rules for brown book variants (I think only my own AC system remains). Now as I list to wizards podcasts and read the boards and get my sense of 4.0 I think its even closer to how I play the game than 3.5, so I'm going into 4.0 with anticipation, not reservation.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    I thought this fitted better in this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beruin View Post
    The way the Taelinri are described emphasizes that they can be out-standing mages, warriors, philosophers or craftsmen, because the elves see the merit in each and every profession without distinguishing socially between blue and white collar professions so-to-speak. I for one can't really see how a playable prestige class would look like that really offers something to all basic classes. An alternative might be to develop a number of prestige classes based on a common theme, i.e. Taelinri mage, Taelinri warrior, Taelinri expert and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Sounds like the bard class to me.
    No, you got me wrong here I believe. The bard dabbles in a number of fields, but he is not a master in a particular field. In this regard, a Taelinir is the opposite of the bard. In my view, each Taelinir is regarded as a specialized master in a particular field, but each Taelinir can specialize in a different field. An elf might be an outstanding farmer and this would qualify him to become a Taelinir, as the elves would regard his knowledge and expertise as equally worthy of admiration as the knowledge of a master wizard or the skill of a master swordsman.
    For this reason, there should be different paths available for becoming a Taelinir.
    A prestige class for the farmer taelinir should allow him to continue specializing in farming, perhaps via skill focus as a bonus feat, a number of druid spells like plant growth or control weather and so on. A prestige class like this wouldn't be of much interest to a master swordsman, however, so the master swordsman needs a different prestige class I'd say.
    However, both classes should still have some things in common - something like bardic knowledge would fit, abilities focused on teaching (though these might not be of that much interest to many players I guess), perhaps some cultural benefits - i.e. it's unthinkable for a Sidhelien to hurt a Taelinir, Taelinri are always received warmly and can expect a place to sleep and something to eat everywhere, etc. In this regard, taelinri indeed have similarities to the bard class and many bard abilities would fit, but I'd see specialization and mastery in a particular class or profession as a prerequisite. Something similar to the Loremaster secrets would also be fitting.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Actually, the whole "master of none" regarding the bard is absolutely ridiculous: disregarding prestige classes (which break the mold by all means), what other class is so good at performing and can actually ensnare and "buff" other classes in such a manner? While it is true that clerics are excellent at it and wizards and druids are quite competent too, that's the turf of the bard!

    It's true that bards can be quite adept at anything, but that's because they dabble at anything - apart from their inspiring performancies.

    The Taelinri is much like that, by all means: caretakers, teachers, lorekeepers, wizards and witches (in the archaic sense of the words - wise men and women)... Call it whatever you like it, but, just as with the bard, the truth is that they may put some emphasis in an aspect other than their main focus, but they still have something that they are really good at.

    Combining the loremaster and Fochlucan lyrist in one way or another seems quite reasonable - have you given it any thought?

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