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  1. #1
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    Interesting Thought

    I had an interesting thought while playing through a Kinetic Novel last night (The Nettestadt Troll -- its a Romance game, and a different pace from other computer games). I thought about scribing a story about the Sword Mage and his (her?) origins.

    From Canon, we know that Gavin Taele conquered two of the original Twelve Duchies and forged them together to form Ghoere. Since most Birthright Novels happened in the past, I'd figure I'd set the story during Gavin Taele's campaign for supremacy over these two duchies. In my story, the Sword Mage is the last heir of one of these Duchies; and he (she?) must hide its identity in order to work its plan on restoring what is rightfully his(hers).

    Although the story is going to have some romance, sex, war, violence, politics, and all that -- it focuses on the idea that the Sword Mage is the legitimate ruler of Ghoere and his (her) adventures in establishing his or her regency. Although it is not Canon, I think it's a great idea to establish the Sword Mage as the legitimate duke of one of the original Duchies, what do you guys think?
    Regent of Medoere

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Echoing what the folks at Wot are saying about novels and FR canon. . .

    It is a good idea to start separating the two and make it clear that they are separate.

    Heck the point of novels has always been to tell a good story and not to set out insert rules or factual events that control a setting or game. At least that is my opinion.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    Echoing what the folks at Wot are saying about novels and FR canon. . .

    It is a good idea to start separating the two and make it clear that they are separate.

    Heck the point of novels has always been to tell a good story and not to set out insert rules or factual events that control a setting or game. At least that is my opinion.
    Yes, that's true. BR Novels have always been in the past, so that their events wouldn't affect our campaigns -- much. This is a story set in the Recent Past, dealing with one possibility about the Sword Mage and its relationship with Gavin Taele and Ghoere.
    Regent of Medoere

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    Not that it should affect your story, as you should change things around however you wish or need to tell it, but I thought Ghoere was established from Bhalaene and Ghieste many generations ago (not by Gavin Tael, or even by a Tael).

    I'm not sure how canon the BrWiki entry on Ghoere is (is it from a Player's Secrets?), but I thought it at least reflected that those duchies had been subsumed long ago. Otherwise there would potentially be more unrest over the change in living memory from two once-great duchies to a single barony (a change that would be more recent and extreme than the split between Tuornen and Alamie, the Cariele family driven out and into Coeranys, even the sundering of Roesone and Medoere from Diemed).

    Perhaps the SM, then, has Long Life, and is the same person then as when the duchies died out over a hundred years ago, or is still just a living descendant. Note that Stiele Ghieste's name (is this a canon character?) indicates likely lineage back to the old duchy of Ghieste. Perhaps that leaves the SM as the heir to Bhalaene?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Elton Robb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Not that it should affect your story, as you should change things around however you wish or need to tell it, but I thought Ghoere was established from Bhalaene and Ghieste many generations ago (not by Gavin Tael, or even by a Tael).
    Hmm. Maybe I should make sure I'm protected by Canon. Lets see...

    Ruins of Empire doesn't say anything if Gavin Taele did unify Ghieste and Bahlaene. But I wonder where I got the idea. hmm...
    Regent of Medoere

  6. #6
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:03 AM 1/12/2008, irdeggman wrote:

    >Echoing what the folks at Wot are saying about novels and FR canon. . .
    >
    >It is a good idea to start separating the two and make it clear that
    >they are separate.
    >
    >Heck the point of novels has always been to tell a good story and
    >not to set out insert rules or factual events that control a setting
    >or game. At least that is my opinion.

    The FR novels aren`t canon? Interesting.... They are "expanded
    universe" type material then?

    Regardless, I do think you make a good point. I think we should
    consider all published BR materials canon (since we don`t have a
    whole heck of a lot...) but we should prioritize that canon. That
    is, the boxed set comes first, the sourcebooks next, the PSo texts
    after that, Dragon/Dungeon articles, then the fiction and last some
    reported conversation with one of the originators ranking slightly
    above the opinions expressed by creators of homebrew. Any
    contradictions would be resolved in that order (plus whatever other
    sources I`m forgetting.)

    Gary

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Gary proposes a good hierarchy of authority for the BR texts.

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Gary proposes a good hierarchy of authority for the BR texts.

    Which is pretty much the same one I've always used too ; )


    After looking back,

    I must disagree with Gary's proposed order of precedance.

    I go with the following, based on later publishing having greater priority as well as specific material having more priority over lesser detailed material:

    BoM - the definitive source for magic (greater, lesser and true) for the setting. Including sources and ley lines. Also has the detailed information for war spells.

    BoP - the definitive source for priestly magic as well as investiture.

    Cities in the Sun - contains the detailed rules for naval battles (also contained in the supplement Naval Battle Rules)

    Havens of the Great Bay - has supplemental rules for sea trade routes and the like.

    Blood Spawn - the detailed information on the Shadow World and some information on the history of the elves and formation of Cerilia.

    BoR - this one is a tad more difficult. It does contain the updated list of blood abilities and thus supercedes the boxed set and Blood Enemies in that regard. It also contains more detail on the transformation to awnsheglien. It has more magic item information too. Much more of a catch all product than one that is truely "focused", IMO.

    Blood Enemies. Except were superceded by BoR for blood abilities and anwie transformation.

    Boxed set for domain actions and pretty much everything not specifically detailed in supplements.

    PS - very specific for a domain, but also rife with conflicts.

    Novels, adventures and articles - mostly color and some specific (adventure linked). Great care needs to be used here - because a lot of the adventure material is inconsistent with other material and appears to be merely repackaged FR material (Sword of Roele anyone).
    Last edited by irdeggman; 01-14-2008 at 04:17 PM.
    Duane Eggert

  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    The FR novels aren`t canon? Interesting.... They are "expanded
    universe" type material then?

    Gary

    That was one of the points they were trying to make - to move away from considering novels canon. Their "logic" was that by treating them as canon with one sweep a lot of things drastically change.

    This has been the philosophy in the past (that the novels were indeed canon, at least for FR) WotC is trying to say that they need to change that philosophy. Which is something I agree with.
    Duane Eggert

  10. #10
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    It reduces the impact having a hard metaplot would have on the game; a soft metaplot (e.g. D deity died from choking on a Pretzel in Y year) has a lesser impact on campaigns, guiding them more ambiguously and constructively.

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