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  1. #21
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    In Anuire, at least, legal authority doesn't reside in wizards, so by old imperial order, wizards would be extorting with such threats.
    If people constrained themselves according to what was legally authorized there would be no crime and every child would have a pony. If you want the legitimacy of law, be a priest of Haelyn, or own law holdings. What we're talking about here is power. The easiest way to use power is with the mantle of legitimacy, but its acquired much more easily than getting the law to acknowledge you before you act.

    The first thing to consider is what the DM thinks is possible and appropriate. If the DM thinks that wizards should play the role of Merlin, then you are best off finding yourself an Arthur and be happy that your DM was honest. The worst DM is one who lets you go about trying to build an source domain dominant over others but knows it will never happen and just punishes you with failures while never admitting that this can never happen.

    The second thing to figure out is whether the DM can see past the domain system. If he can't then you are just playing Risk with a lot of book-keeping. My advice would be to find a new game. If the DM sees the domain system as just a way to quantify how powerful is mighty powerful compared to pretty powerful, then proceed.

    Once you begin, start small. You can't expect to just go around dominating Gavin Tael. But you certainly can start doing favors for the nobles of Danaroene and the local guildmasters of the Highland Overland Traders. Build your client list from the ground up. Everyone has to. Most rulers get the opportunity to start building their network as the heir to someone else. I'm assuming you're starting from scratch.

    I limit arcane magic mostly to divinations, illusions, and enchantments. But with these three alone, you can become tremendously powerful. If you have other schools allowed to you, you have an extraordinary bag of tricks.

    If you inherit an existing source domain, don't you also inherit some relationships of your father or mentor? Build on those and start to turn people from members of one organization into your people. You don't need them to abandon their liege, you just want them unable to move on you. You want them to argue for you in their liege's court.

    Finally, if you want to be the first man in Rome, you need to conquer Gaul. It took Caesar 10 years and a lot of risks to pull this off, so you can't expect that making yourself master of any region will happen overnight. It will be the result of a lot of of effort, a long time in coming, and some serious risks. Taking down a powerful adversary will require several major contests.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    With regards to taxation and extortion, I was referring to the threat of magical destruction, personal or of the realm. In Anuire, at least, legal authority doesn't reside in wizards, so by old imperial order, wizards would be extorting with such threats.
    I think that's just the standard way governments do business with each other, temples of Haelyn included. Negotiations between sovereign entities always go something like, "I want to do X. You want to do Y. We will both achieve our goals more easily if we work together, but at least we can stay out of each other's way -- unless you try to do Z, which I cannot allow anyone to attempt, so I will declare war on you if you do. Other than that, though, everything should be fine." Bribery and threats are just the way things are always done -- but they should be done under a veneer of polite diplomacy, because we are civilized people. Well, except in Vosgaard, where it may be considered rude to begin a business meeting without punching the other guy in the face. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Further, to hold power over others one must on occasion hold all the cards.
    While that is certainly useful, it's not strictly necessary -- all you really have to do is hold enough cards to tip the balance one way or the other. That's precisely what the word "kingmaker" means these days. Actually, you don't need to hold *any* cards, as long as you can successfully bluff somebody into thinking you might.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Wizards are currently too weak to exert that kind of influence over most realms, especially when temples are ready to step in to counter them magically, and when DMs (often) don't let wizard regents simply Dominate or Geas other PCs.
    If the PCs are all in the same party, they should already be working together as a team without needing any additional incentives to cooperate. If they are all running different realms in a PBEM, they are supposed to be sneaky bastards constantly at each other's throats. That's one of the reasons every king wants the most powerful court wizard he can get: even if you're too much a goody-two-shoes to dominate and geas other people, you at least need to have someone around to detect, prevent and dispel such things when they are done to you. Of course, you have to trust that defensive wizard with your very existence, so you'd damn well better keep on his good side, or he might just "accidentally" forget to tell you to eat the fish instead of the veal until it's just a teensy bit too late.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    Well I told you what I thought should be done based on that didn't I?
    And I agree with you wholeheartedly! =)

    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    The big problem with the number of actions is that any action involving a source must be done by the wizard himself - this to me is a problem.
    Really? Where does that restriction come from? As I read the rulebook, even fighters can Create and Rule source holdings -- they just can't cast realm spells with them. IMC, I prefer to rule that only spellcasting regents can interact with source holdings at all, but as long as the wizard's lieutenant is also a wizard, I see no problem whatsoever with said Lt. Wiz casting realm spells or performing any other action with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    One of the other things that should be done, IMO, is to allow a source regent to apply his source holding levels for or against any rule province actions - this is a change I would make and strongly suggest for anyone running a game. It is a way of having the land work for or against development. Basically the rule province action as written in the BRCS is too over powered.
    I agree! One of the most interesting sentences in the original rulebook, at least in terms of unexplored gaming potential, is on page 81: "If High Mage Aelies wished to increase the level of his source [(2) in Fairfield/Roesone, a province (3/2)], he would first need to contest the province's level." (emphasis added by me, but the words are Rich and Colin's). To me, this implies that if he does successfully contest the province, he can rule up his source holding normally -- at which point the province level immediately drops to 2, along with any level 3 law, guild or temple holdings. Here at last we have found a possible game-rule mechanism for keeping Cerilia's province levels so very low for so very long, other than constant pillaging or castings of Death Plague. It also further implies that the old netbook "Contested Rule" action is not necessary: if all the levels of possible guild holdings in a province are taken, you can't rule up your own guild holding there -- unless you first contest one of the others, at which point you don't need to destroy it with another contest; instead, you can rule up your own normally and then the contested one goes down. Of course, once you have contested the other holding, you should then just invest it, which could gain you several holding levels in just one action.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    When running a wizard regent in a PBEM game I noticed that those 2 factors were what specifically limited my character (far too few actions and couldn't generate enough GB, that is why the Alchemy spell should be "revised" - since it should be the primary means of a wizard regent generating income, other than via "stipends" from the landed regent).
    IMO, the ideal position of a wizard is the one I had as James Ruhland's court wizard in Solmyr's Mystaran BR campaign. James basically said, "OK, here are three guild holdings and the trade routes connecting them, which I have had my pet guilder make to invest you with as your regular income source. If you need more than that, let me know and I'll see what I can do." I and my several wizard lieutenants spent all our time researching and casting realm spells, except for those times when we accompanied his armies into battle and shattered his opponents with the force of our magic, or were called out on an adventure action to do some Mission: Impossible stuff with our PHB spells. It was marvelous!

    The most powerful configuration of any realm is when you have one regent for each holding type, who work together to run every holding in all the provinces together in lockstep, because it gives you a huge advantage in number of actions per turn, optimizing RP collection, and using holding levels and spending RP to support each other's actions. These people are in fact so useful to every ruler that our DM let every PBEM player (even nonlanded ones) create two NPC vassals who were controlled as tightly as lieutenants, in order to make the game move faster. James coined the word "vassalouie" to describe them. Their absence from the Sierra computer game is why military conquest is by far the fastest part of war -- the grindingly slow part is creating all the damn holdings you want to develop in the conquered provinces.

    As a side note on the slowness of development after conquest, the single most important reason that every ruler should want to capture his enemies alive, and no regent should ever let themselves be captured alive, is that if you are both present at the investiture ceremony, even under duress, the captor can invest every province and holding in the captive's domain with a *single action*, which provides the opportunity to double your domain overnight instead of taking a decade. And then you can stab him through the heart, but the couple extra bloodscore points you gain is vastly less important than completely digesting his whole domain in one gulp. Personally, I think that is just too powerful, but that's what the rulebook says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    Worst case scenario, though, is that someone could effectively have a +7 to +9 to their character level, which might be a problem for some folks. The difference between a few magic missiles shouldn`t be a problem, but many dice of damage from a Fireball from a 5th level wizard might be a bit much.
    I think it's no problem to so forcefully drive home the point that it's never a good idea to mess with a regent wizard on his home turf. Actually, it's the only way I can imagine avoiding having random wandering gunslinger wizards squash Aglondier like a bug: Rogr can never leave his home turf, because his ley line to his highest source (a level 3) is the source of fully half (or more, really) of his face-to-face power, but at least when he's at home he is able to cast third-level spells. Of course, that still can't protect him in the slightest from Aelies, so that particular interaction still doesn't make much sense unless Aglondier is already just an agent of Aelies or some other wizard of equivalent power (which would pretty much have to be another elf or an awnshegh).

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    Allowing spells per day to increase based on source holding level seems like taking the idea a step too far as that`s a very personal level of power,
    I've been slowly increasing this effect over the years, because it turns out to not be nearly as powerful as I'd have liked. I started with just increasing effective caster level for all variable spell effects. Then I did that plus also added source level to Int score to calculate extra spells per day. Then I changed that to add directly to caster level, but kept the original bonus to effects as well. The next game I run, I will add source level directly to character level in all ways, as a "positive level" just like the "negative levels" imposed by various monsters, spells and items, but with the opposite sign: if you are normally a sixth-level wizard, but are currently in a province where you hold a source (4), then you are considered a tenth-level wizard in all ways, including +2 BAB and +4d4 hp, etc. -- but only as long as you stay in that province. I think it's exactly the sort of personal power which ought to exist: having a source holding means that the power of the land itself is constantly thrumming in your blood, allowing you to perform feats of magic far beyond what any nonregent with identical training can possibly match -- but only in provinces where you are personally wired directly into the local mebhaighl. I really like the mythic image of the titan Hercules couldn't beat as long as the guy's feet were on the ground from which he drew his power. It also means I can effectively give regents BoM-ish battle spells without the utter demographic disaster of letting any old magician off the street cast the things.

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    but that aside doesn`t it potentially create a sort of bookkeeping problem too?
    Somewhat, but not too much of one in practice. I have rarely had adventures in which source-holders repeatedly cross province boundaries, especially as regent wizards quickly understand that being invincible on one's home turf means they're sitting ducks for the locals if they ever leave their base of power (that's the job of lieutenants and passing adventurers for hire). In my Cerilia, regent wizards have an excellent practical reason to stay locked in their towers (or at least, within 15 or 20 miles of them) and conduct diplomacy through messengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    I mean, I`d hate to deal with players having to pick and choose what spells they had every time they passed from one province to another based on what holdings they had.
    This isn't a problem for me because it interacts very nicely with the very first magic house rule I ever created for BR: all unblooded casters of whatever class have to memorize all their spells in advance, but no blooded casters of any class need to memorize anything. I feel strongly that the notion of literal divine right essential to Birthright demands that in Cerilia, spontaneous casting should be a perk of being a scion, not dependent on what class you've taken. I feel the same way about material components -- blooded casters should never need them for any spell, but unblooded casters should always need them for every spell. Therefore, since only blooded people can be regent wizards with sources, and blooded people don't have to memorize, all I have to do is note that their allowed spells per day has changed if they cross a province boundary.

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    Planescape used to have that sort of effect for clerics as they passed through the planes as they went further from their "home" plane. I found those effects really difficult and annoying to keep track of, so they were quickly dropped when I DM`d in that setting. Did anything that come up?
    Very rarely. Planescape characters are supposed to be earning huge numbers of frequent flier miles, but I found that my source bonuses quite effectively encouraged regent wizards to be homebodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    Did you also give opponents a penalty to saving throws?
    Not in 2e, but in 3e I add source level to spell DC, so effectively I now do just that. This isn't only because it's now easier to mechanic in 3e; it's also part of my gradual increase in source bonuses over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    Even with all these additions I had trouble convincing anyone in a BR campaign to take on source holdings. Of course, playing at the adventure level might make the wizard`s access to the domain level problematic, so YMMV.
    Really? You should have had me join in by email. =) Actually, as you pointed out many years ago, the existence of the Magic Jar spell lets any high-level wizard pretty much control any realm he wants to, even without being a regent at all.
    Last edited by ryancaveney; 01-10-2008 at 04:47 AM.

  6. #26
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post

    Really? Where does that restriction come from? As I read the rulebook, even fighters can Create and Rule source holdings -- they just can't cast realm spells with them. IMC, I prefer to rule that only spellcasting regents can interact with source holdings at all, but as long as the wizard's lieutenant is also a wizard, I see no problem whatsoever with said Lt. Wiz casting realm spells or performing any other action with them.
    2nd ed BoM pg 18
    “Magicians and nonwizard characters who attempt to locate sources achieve only limited success. They can sense something unusual about an area, and – depending on their intelligence and previous exposure to things magical – can make an educated guess about whether they have located a source. But discovery can be confirmed only by a wizard who commands true magic.”



    BRCS Ch 5

    Source holdings
    Unlike law, guild, and temple regents, source regents are not generally recognized as political powers. Source regents receive regency through their sources by tapping into the mebhaighl to increase their personal power. Although the nature of regency collection for source holdings is different, the mechanics for regency collection are identical.

    Regents forge a link to their source through the casting of ritual arcane magic to forge a semi-permanent link between themselves and a manifestation of the land's mebhaighl. Only casters of greater arcane magic can forge this link. Rulers who wish to control access to magical forces within their realms often find wizards or sorcerers to be invaluable allies or vassals.

    Mebhaighl is thought to be the divine essence of the land itself, and thus tapping into this power to increase one's regency total is akin to a very minor form of bloodtheft. Some Rjurik druids fear that unscrupulous mages might bleed the land of its life essence faster than it can be replenished, but no convincing proof of this position has every been forwarded. Perhaps this fear accounts for the distrust that most Rjurik have for true mages”



    “Source holdings are substantially different that other types of holdings. Only practitioners of true magic can create or rule source holdings. Other characters cannot control sources directly; although they control them indirectly through the services of a vassal mage.

    Unlike other holdings and domain assets, source holdings and ley lines have no maintenances cost. However, control of source holdings provide no income and little in the way of direct political impact. Control of other types of holdings allows the regent to utilize the holding to perform domain actions in the province in which the holding lies. Source holdings do not provide such benefits. Source holding levels cannot usually be applied to aid in a domain action. Furthermore, the regent of a source holding gains no special insight into the political powers of the province and may be largely unaware of the other regents in the province. On the other hand, it is equally difficult for non-source regents to view the level or current regent of source holdings in their provinces.

    Powerful sources can provide the regent mage with considerable influence of the wildlife and natural resources of the province. Source holdings of level 4 or higher count as virtual guilds for the mage. As a source holding increases, so too does the influence of the mage over the wildlife and simple-folk of the region. A source holding of level 4 acts as a virtual guild (0), a source holding of level 5 acts as a virtual guild (1), and so on. This virtual guild is not an actual holding, it does not count against the total level of guild holding in the province nor it can not be contested, ruled, or invested as a separate entity – its fate is entirely tied to that of the source holding. Otherwise, the virtual guild provides most of the benefits of an actual guild: the regent mage collects gold (but not regency) each domain turn, the mage can use the guild level in domain actions to affect public opinion (Agitate), rally soldiers to their cause (Muster troops), collect information through agents (Espionage), or collect income from trade (Create trade route) in exactly the same way as an actual guild of the appropriate level.”


    BRCS Ch 7

    In claiming a manifestation, the mage forces her acceptance as a part of the environment. In the natural area surrounding the manifestation, the wizard is attuned perfectly to the land – wildlife will not flee her approach, and the wizard can stand within the midst of the manifestation without fear of discomfort or harm. This area has a diameter of 1 mile x the level of the source holding squared. This connection remains intact unless the mage's holding is contested.

    Through natural and magical means, true mages can then enhance the flow of the province's mebhaighl through their manifestation, claiming more of the province’s power for themselves. To strengthen their sources, mages use the Rule Holding domain action. This action represents additional time that the mage spends in the province attuning herself to the land and altering the natural flow of mebhaighl to pool more deeply in the reservoirs available for her use. As a source's holding level increases, its manifestation becomes more potent and distinctive.

    Normally, all regent mages in a province claim a unique source manifestation as their own. A mage may only attempt to claim a source (0) in a manifestation already claimed by another mage if the other agrees to allow the action to succeed. If two or more mages claim the same manifestation, the source levels available to each are separate but the total of the source levels defines the strength of the manifestation. The maximum source level of a province represents the limit for the amount of earth power available in each province. If two or more mage regents claim the province's mebhaighl then they must contest among themselves for the available source levels.

    Source manifestations usually do not require protection from ordinary people – few pass nearby. More importantly, the earthpower itself enhances the power of the manifestation and makes it largely immune to harm. Manifestations resist normal wear and damage from the elements (earth, air, fire, and water) including flooding, erosion, lightning, or forest fire. Deliberate violence, however, can harm manifestations and – rarely – even the source itself. Because of the mystical link between regent mages and their sources, they become immediately aware when a claimed manifestation is disturbed. This awareness generally ranges from a feeling of mild discomfort to actual acute physical pain. “
    Duane Eggert

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    Thanks for helping me understand some other game styles, guys!

    I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything in the rules requiring wizards to take on every domain action personally. Certainly some of the magical theory would seem to indicate this, but explicit rules about Courts don't exempt wizards from having Courts and LT's that can act in their stead. Nothing also prevents LT's from casting realm spells. I've also wondered at how/why the LT action is supposed to not use the regent's RP, since any action the regent has done for him by his court is more distant from his bloodline than the lieutenant. So an LT should be able to have the ruler's RP funneled through him, like a vassal (or "vassalouie )

    As far as structures:
    The Arcane Tower idea itself is paralleled closely with the Palace and Fortified holding, so there are equivalents for other rulers.
    The additional structure types/add ons to Arcane Towers I always envisioned would be very much dependent upon the type of game, but they operate on some parallels with the Embassy and Spy Network entities (allowing some Standard actions to become Court actions).

    I personally think there ought to be more structures available for detailed games (I'd love them in all games, myself, but I can see where they'd be tough to have in PBEMs). The old BRnet website had some info on possible province upgrades and types of wondrous structures; those were good starts, but wondrous structures are incredibly expensive to build. I am in favor of allowing players to compete with more than just holdings, but additional assets such as Armories and Training Grounds, Trade Fairs and Academies, Monastaries and Cathedrals. These would primarily be extensions of the Fortified Holding, and would certainly complicate the game, but it's an interesting touch, IMO.

    __________
    "And yet as is the case with most spell research the cost is mostly in acquiring old tomes and related texts and not in actual "materials"."

    I actually think no, not so much in Birthright. This is a setting where there is little magic and presumably there are very few old tomes and so forth. I think most things must be figured out anew through experimentation and so forth.
    __________
    My point about extortion was that in Anuire, culturally, wizards pretty much can't assume a "mantle of legitimacy" to cover their threats. The people would not consider it so. That's a valid point in the story, it just puts game play at a bit of a disadvantage.
    ______
    When I talked about no PC-on-PC Dominating, I was referring mainly to PBEMs, where PC teams aren't working together, DMs often don't allow even its use, and there's also little time to establish long campaigns of working up influence from person to person in a realm's court.
    ______________
    Ryan, I really like how you've handled the personal power increase for wizards! I've been right along with you guys on thinking these types of rules should be in place, but I like how far you've taken it!

    I'd apply the holding level to everything but skill points--instead just apply a bonus to skills, rather than have people recalculate by new character level.

    What about doing the same thing for other regent types? It would work very similarly for clerics, would make warrior-kings dominate the battlefield of their realm, and would have merchant-princes be pretty dominating. Wizards can extend their bonus with ley lines (particularly temporary ones for specific purposes); temple regents should be able to "take it with them" with temporary Rituals or Blessings; law regents by being accompanied by sufficiently-large armies or personal, ritual Challenges or Decrees; guilds by trade routes, spy networks, or embassies.
    _______________

    I like most of the ideas you guys have for fixing the system; they address the key problems I've identified, some in the same way as I suggested, some differently. The key fixes seem to be:
    1. Alchemy should be cheaper and less restricted
    2. LT's and/or others should be able to take domain actions for the regent; courts should not be so necessary for wizard regents (what about Realm actions?)
    3. Research should not take so long (I'll concede the full cost, but I still don't think realm spells should be so high in level as to be out of reach of most PC's and thus researching them shouldn't take more than 2 months for most, 3 for only the most powerful)
    4. Wizards should be able to use RP in place of GB directly for standard domain actions having to do with sources, needing GB primarily for research, casting realm spells, and building things they can't/don't want to build with their spells
    5. Allow wizard regents to use source holdings to oppose and contest province levels

    I don't actually think the Rule Province thing is broken. There are enough ways to explain it, and the rule makes game play more dynamic. I think it could be a little more complex to make it a little more realistic, like adding a penalty for any unfilled holding levels or high taxation/low loyalty level, or adding a bonus for province loyalty/low taxation level and for each trade route attached to it and each domain asset existing in it. IMO, a level 6 province with full holding levels, 2 trade routes, a castle, a palace, roads, a shipyard, Helpful attitude, and lower-than-normal taxation should be vastly easier to rule up than one without fully developed guilds, no trade routes, no assets, indifferent loyalty, high taxation, etc.

    I don't think you can just contest then invest existing holdings, can you?

    I agree that investing someone's realm out from under them is too powerful, especially by compulsion. I think it should work more like the designated Heir in BRCS who must struggle to establish full control against other claimants if the previous regent dies without a smooth intentional transfer of power.
    _________

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    ryancaveney schrieb:
    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at:
    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4104
    > ...
    > I think it`s no problem to so forcefully drive home the point that it`s never a good idea to mess with a regent wizard on his home turf. Actually, it`s the only way I can imagine avoiding having random wandering gunslinger wizards squash Aglondier like a bug: Rogr can never leave his home turf, because his ley line to his highest source (a level 3) is the source of fully half (or more, really) of his face-to-face power, but at least when he`s at home he is able to cast third-level spells. Of course, that still can`t protect him in the slightest from Aelies, so that particular interaction still doesn`t make much sense unless Aglondier is already just an agent of Aelies or some other wizard of equivalent power (which would pretty much have to be another elf or an awnshegh).
    > ...
    > I`ve been slowly increasing this effect over the years, because it turns out to not be nearly as powerful as I`d have liked. I started with just increasing effective caster level for all variable spell effects. Then I did that plus also added source level to Int score to calculate extra spells per day. Then I changed that to add directly to caster level, but kept the original bonus to effects as well. The next game I run, I will add source level directly to character level in all ways, as a "positive level" just like the "negative levels" imposed by various monsters, spells and items, but with the opposite sign: if you are normally a sixth-level wizard, but are currently in a province where you hold a source (4), then you are considered a tenth-level wizard in all ways, including +2 BAB and +4d4 hp, etc. -- but only as long as you stay in that province. I think it`s exactly the sort of personal power which ought to exist: having a source holding means that the power o
    > f the land itself is constantly thrumming in your blood, allowing you to perform feats of magic far beyond what any nonregent with identical training can possibly match -- but only in provinces where you are personally wired directly into the local mebhaighl. I really like the mythic image of the titan Hercules couldn`t beat as long as the guy`s feet were on the ground from which he drew his power. It also means I can effectively give regents BoM-ish battle spells without the utter demographic disaster of letting any old magician off the street cast the things.
    ...
    While I agree that Wizards should be powerful at a personal level this
    way seems overpowered. Adding the whole source level on top of their
    character level? Making a 6th level wizard a 10th level wizard in an
    entire province if he controls a sourc 4 there? Or even in several
    provinces if he uses ley lines?

    In that case -at the very least- you should require the wizard to spend
    one of his feats on the "Sanctum Spell" feat from Tome&Blood. It does
    not give powers comparable to entire characterlevels but it?s theme is
    similar as it gives the wizard more power in a designated area .

    How else could a wizard that is sometimes 6th level and sometime 6+Xth
    level adventure together with other players in an adventure without
    overshadowing the entire party?

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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    “Magicians and nonwizard characters who attempt to locate sources achieve only limited success. They can sense something unusual about an area, and – depending on their intelligence and previous exposure to things magical – can make an educated guess about whether they have located a source. But discovery can be confirmed only by a wizard who commands true magic.”
    OK, thanks, I'd forgotten that was actually printed. I guess that means I didn't really need my house rule after all. =)

    However, why did you say the actions were limited to the wizard himself, rather than to the wizard and any of his lieutenants who are also wizards? The paragraph you quote is about how to *become* a source regent, so clearly you don't already have to be one. In fact, if you are a regent wizard's lieutenant wizard, you don't have to search for the manifestation at all, because the same semimystical connection to your boss which enables you to take actions on his behalf which cost RP also enables you to know precisely where all the sources are and how to use them properly for your boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConjurerDragon View Post
    Adding the whole source level on top of their character level? Making a 6th level wizard a 10th level wizard in an entire province if he controls a sourc 4 there? Or even in several provinces if he uses ley lines?
    Yup. As I said, I've gradually increased the bonus over the years, because it has yet to be as powerful in practice as I'd originally meant it to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConjurerDragon View Post
    In that case -at the very least- you should require the wizard to spend one of his feats on the "Sanctum Spell" feat from Tome&Blood. It does not give powers comparable to entire characterlevels but it?s theme is similar as it gives the wizard more power in a designated area .
    The reason I don't think that's necessary is because the effect already has a very strong game-mechanical limitation: you have to have a source holding of the appropriate level. That means that very, very few people in the game world will ever have any access to this kind of power; it will only ever be in a limited area, and that area is limited by Rule, Contest and other actions by other regents; and the people who get this bonus are the same people who can already cast realm spells -- the ability to cast Subversion, Legion of Dead, Raze, etc. once per month is already at least as powerful as several extra levels of PHB spellcasting every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConjurerDragon View Post
    How else could a wizard that is sometimes 6th level and sometime 6+Xth level adventure together with other players in an adventure without overshadowing the entire party?
    How can a 3rd level fighter regent with a 9th level fighter lieutenant not have the lieutenant overshadow the entire party? The answer, in both cases, is that they can't -- but that's really just the price you've already paid for having regents ever go on adventures at all. The fact that a 1st level regent character thinks any unit of money less than 2,000 gold pieces is merely rounding error presents an inherent difficulty of scale that my wizard powerups do rather little to increase.

    In fact, the primary practical reason for this rules change is to improve game balance at the realm level. What it does is substantially increase the defensive power of low-level regent wizards without at all increasing their offensive power, or making world-wreckers like Llaeddra much more powerful than they already are -- a level 3 going to a level 7 is a huge increase, but a level 18 going to a level 22 has very little impact (because there aren't any 11th level spells). I find such things necessary, as I have said, to keep low-level regent wizards like Aglondier from being assassinated far too easily. Even so, a Wiz 3 like Rogr needs a much bigger source than he actually has (3) to protect him from the likes of Quirad al-Dinn (Wiz 11).

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