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  1. #21
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    I love that map, Kenneth I presume you coloured the Gehaiste oval red to indicate that its been lost to history?

    Of course, unless twelve council seats for twelve tribes is a coincidence, that doesn't explain why the Taeghan and Brosen seats merged into one or why the Osoerdan seat was created.

  2. #22
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    Which tie do you think is stronger? The Brosen tribe with Brosengae's land, or with its title as a duchy? Likewise, are the Duireina tied closer to their land or their title? I'm not sure what the sources were, so I'll take your word for it. What I'm thinking, though, is that if we keep Brosengae tied to its land, we can do some interesting backcasting into history to explain the change in titles and all that. Again, I don't know all the sources as well as many of you seem to, so stop me if I've broken line.

    Let's say all the tribes settled according to Kgauck's assumption. That puts Brosengae with primarily the bay as its resource, and very defensible access to the lands of the Anwe through the mountains--allowing support between the two if they are allied, but discouraging hostilities since its so hard for the two to fight each other through the mountains. That leaves Brosengae cornered with only Taeghas against which to expand. So quarrel, they did, and at some point before the establishment of the duchies, drove the Duireina out of Taeghas.

    The Duireina migrated far East to found Osoerde in less settled lands to lick their wounds--much as the Carel were driven out of Cariele at a later point in history and followed the Duireina's precedent to settle in Coeranys.

    The Duireina, then, founded Osoerde, but longed for revenge. They rebuilt their power, were incorporated into the Empire as a Duchy under Roele, and quarreled over the seas with Brosengae. The Isles of Baerghos, Albiele, and Caelcorwynn were much disputed over this period of naval warfare, but the Roele's put an end to that by declaring all the isles Imperial lands not to be controlled or quarreled over by any one house.

    Boeruine eventually allied with and aided the Duireina to weaken Brosengae, which had long either allied directly with Avanil (due to the pass) or at least controlled those land routes to the East and extorted Boeruine because of it. This alliance allowed the Duireina to reclaim much of Taeghas, and left Osoerde under the rule of the Moergan family, designating them as heirs should they fall again.

    Fall they did, to the conflicts between Avanil and Boeruine. The Duireina died out amidst all this fighting, leaving their line invested with the more robust Moergans in Osoerde (much as Mierelen received the Brosen inheritance). Thus Osoerde is a duchy, and Taeghas not anymore.

    Avanil kept Taeghas more sizeable with a puppet ruler to keep Brosengae in line, preventing them from being powerful enough to cut off Avanil's access to the Western Coast to make war with Boeruine.

    What do you think? There's probably some simple little canon thing I've missed to destroy my elaborate theory, isn't there?

  3. #23
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Kenneth I like the tie you are making here.

    It also is reflective of how normal settlers work, (e.g. when they collonized North America).

    Groups looked for specific landmarks that worked as non-disputed boundaries and rivers were one of the major ones used.
    Duane Eggert

  4. #24
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I have to admit that I think that the borders of most realms would remain remarkably constant over the centuries (barring blips for a generation or two) because they are divided by natural borders (less so in the south near Ghoere). Even if conquered when the lands were later split between heirs / vassals formed the river/mountains would always be the natural border to chose - and if the land formerly was an ancient duchy then the title would likely be resurrected when the realm was reformed. Similarly if Ghoere had a major civil war I can see the old duchy's of Bhaelene and Ghieste being recognised again.

    I also take the view that the Anuireans see 12 as a lucky or holy number - that way 'inconsistencies' in numbers of tribes, duchy's etc can be explained as lesser tribes/duchy's being overlooked to keep numbers down to 12, or equally lesser tribes/duchy's being included to make up the numbers. The fun in this interpretation is that different power blocks could easily disagree over which minor tribes/duchies should be included or excluded. So Boeruine might not consider Brosengae a duchy - at least as long as they follow Avan...

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