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  1. #1
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Twelve Tribes & Twelve Duchies

    There appears to be an inconsistency between the Twelve Tribes and the Twelve Duchies (and the current countries).

    We know that Tuornen broke off from Alamie, that Roesone et al split from Diemed and that the actual Cariele family fled to Coeranys (which is why Coeranys claims to be a Duchy and Cariele is currently termed as a County).

    My question, though, is what happened to Brosengae and where did Osoerde spring from? Why has Brosengae lost its place in the Twelve Duchies and why is Osoerde apparently in its place?

    Code:
    TRIBES      COUNTRY      DUCHIES
    Anwe        Roele/Avan   Avanil
    Boru        Boeruine     Boeruine
    Mhora       Mhoried      Mhoried
    Elaime      Alamie       Alamie
    Deretha     Diemed       Diemed
    Aeren       Aerenwe      Aerenwe
    Bheallach   Bhalaene     (Ghoere)
    Elin        Elinie       Elinie
    Brosen      Brosengae    Osoerde ??
    Gehaiste    Ghieste      (Ghoere)
    Duireina    Taeghas      Taeghas
    Carel       Cariele      Cariele

  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Brosengae is a duchy, and her ruler is a duchess. That she only has three little provinces and that her neighbor, a mere county with 8 provinces suggests that at some time in the past, Brosengae lost four or five provinces to Taeghas, either through a series of failed wars, or through rebellions and defections (the dynasty of Brosengae has always had a cool relationship with her people).

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    According to the maps in the Iron Throne, Brosengae is listed as a border nation and not one of the twelve duchies.
    O hark, O hear! How thin and clear,
    And thinner, clearer, farther going!
    O sweet and far from cliff and scar
    The Horns of Sielwode faintly blowing!

  4. #4
    The list of 12 duchies (the one including Osoerde) is one that Rich Baker detailed quite a while ago as the original 12 duchies. I'd be inclined to go with that.

    This, of course, doesn't mean that Brosengae couldn't have subsequently been made a duchy by an emperor (and maybe gaining and losing provinces over time). Or perhaps Avan "granted" them that title when they swore vassalage (which would probably create some legitimacy issues in the eyes of many other members of the higher nobility elsewhere in the empire).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vallariel View Post
    According to the maps in the Iron Throne, Brosengae is listed as a border nation and not one of the twelve duchies.
    Brosengae is not a duchy.The duchy is Taeghas,the old Taeghas was formed by Taeghas+the actual Brosengae.So Brosengae is a part of a duchy but is ruled by the lawful duchess.It is different Cariele:the rightful duchess is in a land far from the duchy.
    But Elinie should be considered a duchy?In my opinion it should be considered as Ghieste and Bhalaene,an ex duchy because it is true that its land is survived,but the regent has nothing to do with Anuire and there is not any regent in exile.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vota dc View Post
    Brosengae is not a duchy.The duchy is Taeghas,the old Taeghas was formed by Taeghas+the actual Brosengae.So Brosengae is a part of a duchy but is ruled by the lawful duchess.It is different Cariele:the rightful duchess is in a land far from the duchy.
    Can you explain this in greater detail? I don't follow.

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    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Well, Brosengae was founded by one of the Twelve Tribes, as was Taeghas and all the rest (except, apparently, Osoerde). That's my confusion - what happened to Brosengae that their title remained but their status and line were lost and where did Osoerde spring from into such great prominence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Can you explain this in greater detail? I don't follow.
    Brosengae situation is different because while Cariele's rightful duchess is the regent of a far march (Coeranys),the rightful duchess of Taeghas still control a part of Taeghas duchy:Brosengae.
    http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa...-l&D=1&P=22759
    So Taeghas is the duchy and Brosen is the regent's family.

    Osoerde of course is one of the original duchies.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    That's a fine history, but what is its provenance?

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    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vota dc View Post
    Brosengae situation is different because while Cariele's rightful duchess is the regent of a far march (Coeranys),the rightful duchess of Taeghas still control a part of Taeghas duchy:Brosengae.
    http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa...-l&D=1&P=22759
    So Taeghas is the duchy and Brosen is the regent's family.

    Osoerde of course is one of the original duchies.
    That of course doesn't explain why both the Brosen and Taeghas lines are members of the Twelve Tribes or where Osoerde sprang from without being founded by one of the Twelve Tribes.

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