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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    ... Bloodtheft is possible with a non blooded character so that should be in the rules.
    I reread my 2e rules for bloodtheft, and it seems pretty specific that commoners who slay blooded characters don't inherit the bloodline.

    I noticed that the rules for bloodtheft were altered quite considerably in the 3.x version of birthright, including rules for unblooded characters comiting bloodtheft.

  2. #22
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    I thought it was very possible in 2nd edition, isn't that how the seadrake got his bloodpowers? I thought he was commoner that absorbed bloodline, perhaps I'm wrong.

  3. #23
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 03:56 PM 12/12/2007, Tannen wrote:

    >I reread my 2e rules for bloodtheft, and it seems pretty specific
    >that commoners who slay blooded characters don`t inherit the bloodline.
    >
    >I noticed that the rules for bloodtheft were altered quite
    >considerably in the 3.x version of birthright, including rules for
    >unblooded characters comiting bloodtheft.

    The original rules made it pretty clear that commoners were not
    supposed to gain a bloodline by bloodtheft, but then the original
    materials presented a few exceptional characters who broke this
    "rule" so folks have had a lot of trouble rationalizing the one with
    the other. Personally, I don`t think we need rules to codify the
    exceptional bloodtheft transfer of power from scions to commoners for
    several reasons, and that those exceptions can be explained or
    justified with a little text explaining that such occasions can also
    be used as a sort of Land`s Choice event. After all, any time a
    scion dies the Land (the DM) itself can simply choose to transfer his
    bloodline any place it (he) likes, and that simple fact seems like a
    more likely rationalization for the exceptions to the "rule" than an
    elaboration of the concept itself. Codifying the exceptions to the
    rules as actual rules strikes me as a particularly bad idea in this
    particular case since it actually changes the original concept.

    But with all that said it needs to be noted that the original concept
    for bloodtheft was pretty badly implemented in the 2e Rulebook. It
    led to a bunch of weird possibilities and problems, so some sort of
    revision was in order. On the whole the new version is an
    improvement even if one doesn`t agree with a few particulars. Such
    particulars, like the "explosion" and transfer of bloodline from
    scion to commoner, can be fairly easily removed by the DM in his
    homebrew, so the BRCS`s system is as good a place to start as any other.

    Gary

  4. #24
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    Domain Income

    My draft proposal for a streamlined domain income system (based off of the BRCS) is:

    Inc / Season:

    Prov --- 1 GB / lvl
    Guild --- 1/2 GB / lvl
    Temple - 1/2 GB / lvl
    Law - - - 0
    Source - - 0
    Trade Rte - 1/2 GB / guild lvl

    Law holdings generate income only from Claims against guilds or temples (same as original BR). The law regent may automatically Claim 1/2 to 2 GB (regent's choice) from each guild or temple holding (up to actual guild or temple income). 1/2 Gb might be standard while 2Gb might represent draconian fees, tariffs, bribery, banditry, etc.

    This means a low level guild or temple can be made completely unprofitable by an uncooperative Law regent. Harsh, but not unrealistic at all.

    In addition, I am thinking about adding back Taxation for Province regents. To simplify, Medium taxation generates the above. Light Taxation generates 1/2 but gives a +1 bonus to Domain Loyalty rolls. Heavy Taxation generates 150% but gives a -2 penalty to loyalty rolls.

    Your thoughts?


    PS-
    As a side note, I am trying to eliminate all "1/3" fractions from the rules. "1" or "1/2" is much better for easy of record keeping and math.

  5. #25
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    Regency Collections

    My current draft does away with all "level" or skill based regency collection tables. Right now:

    Province, Law, & Guild generate 1RP/lvl for any regent
    Source generates 1RP/lvl only for regents possessing AB(Magic)
    Temple generates 1 RP/lvl only for regents possessing Vow (Major- appropriate deity)

    I've thought about changing the Temple to requiring AB(Miracles - appropriate deity), but the current way allows for non-spellcasting holy warrior/paladins or clergy to gain RP. The key remains true devotion to the deity.

    BTW- Vow (major - deity) will be a significant and fleshed out Hinderance in my conversion (complete with duties, sins, and repercussions). It will not be a "throw away" that simply pays lip service to deity worship.

    RE: Law & Guilds- my system does have the potential to make multi-holding type regents considerably stronger. Do you think this will unbalance things? I think it makes sense that a ruler would want to control both the law and the economics of a domain, and doing so would (and should) give him significant power & influence (RPs). I also think that avoiding "level" or skill type prereqs for RP collection makes things more FFF.

    Your thoughts on these issues?

  6. #26
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    I thought it was very possible in 2nd edition, isn't that how the seadrake got his bloodpowers? I thought he was commoner that absorbed bloodline, perhaps I'm wrong.
    I think that Azrai was a special case - all the cases of unblooded glooping a scion and getting a highlander effect involved the blood of Azrai. Similarly as awnies got another blood power on glooping a scion several of them had 'wrong' numbers of powers.

    That said I prefer the BRCs as it makes it easier for unblooded PC's to 'catch-up' with blooded PC's as they win fame and fortune. This is particularly handy for players new to BR as having seen bloodlines in action they can gain a bloodline without having to roll up a new PC or inherit.

  7. #27
    About the Bloodlines power, i think it's too complicated for nothing.

    Let see. Birthright characters are supposed to be Blooded from the start. Thus, every character should have, for free, in addition to all starting edges and abilities, the edge Blooded.

    New Edges


    Blooded (Weird Edge)

    Benefit: Your character has been in contact with the blood of the gods. You have a charisma bonus of +1 when dealing with non-blooded. In addition, you have access to a single power related to your Blood (a list of relevant powers depending who's blood the character has could be made). Just like an Arcane Background, these powers are activated through a special skill : Regency, and new powers can be bought with the New Power Edge. They do not cost any PP, although a failure on a regency test automatically bestows one rank of fatigue to the blooded. The fatigue ranks are recovered after one night of sleep.

    Blooded, Major (Weird Edge)


    Prerequisite: Blooded

    Benefit: Your Blood is stronger than usual. You have an additional bonus of +1 to your charisma when dealing with non-blooded. When activating a blood power, you may benefit of a second raise even when not allowed otherwise (for example, the power armor could give a bonus of +6 with 2 raises). Also, you have one extra power for free.

    Blooded, Greater (Weird Edge)

    Prerequisite: Blooded, Major

    Benefit: Your Blood is stronger than usual. You have an additional bonus of +1 to your charisma when dealing with non-blooded. When activating a blood power, you may benefit of a second raise even when not allowed otherwise (for example, the power armor could give a bonus of +8 with 3 raises). Also, you have one extra power for free.

    In addition, any character has access to a new secondary attribute: Regency points

    These points starts at 0 and are limited by the character's rank as followed: Novice (1), Seasoned (2), Veteran (4), Heroic (6), Legendary (9)

    If the character is blooded, he starts with 1 regency points and add 1 to the maximum.
    If he is blooded, major, he starts with 3 regency points and add 3 to the maximum.
    If he is blooded, greater, he starts with 6 regency points and add 6 to the maximum.

    Regency points are gained each month depending on your holdings (more to come)

    Regency points can be used to modify any Regency check. For example, using 2 regency points add +2 to a regency check.

    New Hindrance

    Blood, Tainted (Minor)

    Your blood is so dilluted you cannot access your power to its fullest. You cannot benefit from raises when using your blood powers. You cannot choose Blood, Major or Blood, Greater until you used one of your "advancements" to remove this hindrance.

    New Skill

    Regency (Smarts)

    This skill represent one's ability to use his divine right to rule, blooded or not. This skill is used to activate one's blood powers and to make several province related actions (trying to take over another's holdings, trying to raise an army, etc.)

    What do you think? I think it's Fast, Fun and Furious, while respecting the original Birthright idea.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpb1 View Post
    My current draft does away with all "level" or skill based regency collection tables. Right now:

    Province, Law, & Guild generate 1RP/lvl for any regent
    Source generates 1RP/lvl only for regents possessing AB(Magic)
    Temple generates 1 RP/lvl only for regents possessing Vow (Major- appropriate deity)

    I've thought about changing the Temple to requiring AB(Miracles - appropriate deity), but the current way allows for non-spellcasting holy warrior/paladins or clergy to gain RP. The key remains true devotion to the deity.

    BTW- Vow (major - deity) will be a significant and fleshed out Hinderance in my conversion (complete with duties, sins, and repercussions). It will not be a "throw away" that simply pays lip service to deity worship.

    RE: Law & Guilds- my system does have the potential to make multi-holding type regents considerably stronger. Do you think this will unbalance things? I think it makes sense that a ruler would want to control both the law and the economics of a domain, and doing so would (and should) give him significant power & influence (RPs). I also think that avoiding "level" or skill type prereqs for RP collection makes things more FFF.

    Your thoughts on these issues?
    I like the regency collection rules for the most part. How about having a professional edge called "Guilder" and have that be the pre-requisite for regency from guild holdings? A "Gilder" professional edge will also cover the conversion of that "class" from existing BRCS and 2e sources.

    I don't mind the fact that Law holdings generate regency for all types of regent.

    I agree that the collection of RP for temples should only require the Vow hindrance rather than miracles AB. It allows for the 'mundane' priest type to still be a viable regent along with "Paladin" types.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpb1 View Post
    My draft proposal for a streamlined domain income system (based off of the BRCS) is:

    Inc / Season:

    Prov --- 1 GB / lvl
    Guild --- 1/2 GB / lvl
    Temple - 1/2 GB / lvl
    Law - - - 0
    Source - - 0
    Trade Rte - 1/2 GB / guild lvl

    Law holdings generate income only from Claims against guilds or temples (same as original BR). The law regent may automatically Claim 1/2 to 2 GB (regent's choice) from each guild or temple holding (up to actual guild or temple income). 1/2 Gb might be standard while 2Gb might represent draconian fees, tariffs, bribery, banditry, etc.

    This means a low level guild or temple can be made completely unprofitable by an uncooperative Law regent. Harsh, but not unrealistic at all.

    In addition, I am thinking about adding back Taxation for Province regents. To simplify, Medium taxation generates the above. Light Taxation generates 1/2 but gives a +1 bonus to Domain Loyalty rolls. Heavy Taxation generates 150% but gives a -2 penalty to loyalty rolls.

    Your thoughts?


    PS-
    As a side note, I am trying to eliminate all "1/3" fractions from the rules. "1" or "1/2" is much better for easy of record keeping and math.
    This also looks nice and streamlined too. It'll need play-testing (of course). I definitely like the idea of taxation levels. The system you propose for these is nice and simple.

    One aspect to consider is the idea of randomness - the 2e rules always meant that you could not reliably count on a set level of income. I think the Random Events table could be used to throw the odd boon or hiccup at a regent by allowing +/- to normal domain/holding income quite nicely.

    Great work. This system looks like it cuts the rules back to a very manageble level. Someone with an 'inprogess' game should convert over the realms of a few NPCs to see how this system will affect balance of income vs. maintenance.

    How will you handle maintenance costs? Same as 2e?

    How are those conversion documents looking? :-)
    Last edited by Tannen; 12-19-2007 at 01:49 AM.

  10. #30
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    Tannen

    As always, thanks for your critiques and insight. They have been very helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannen View Post
    How about having a professional edge called "Guilder" and have that be the pre-requisite for regency from guild holdings?
    I've thought about this. Do you think a Guilder Edge should simply permit RP collection from Guilds, or does it need an additional "character level" effect to be viable (e.g. skill bonus or somesuch)?

    On a similar note, I have added four Edges from the BRCS- Master Diplomat, Master Merchant, Military Genius, and Spymaster. All of them grant a +2 to certain Domain Actions. I feel like they should also have "character level" benefits, but have not come up with any. Your thoughts?


    Thanks
    Joe

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