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  1. #11
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    Arcane Spells - Magicians

    Hello all-

    As part of the conversion, I went through the Fantasy Worldbuilder Toolkit by PEG, and the Shaintar Player's Guide by Talisman Studios and added a bunch of spells to those presented in the SW core. If you don't recognize a spell listed below, in probably comes from one of those two sources.

    Here is how I handled arcane magic:

    Arcane Magic
    Anyone of sufficient Smarts may take Arcane Background (Magic) using the usual SW rules.

    Spells
    As a universal rule, in addition to rank requirements, all arcane spells have "Blooded" or "Elf" as a prerequisite. However the following spells (only) are considered Lesser Magic, and do not have "Blooded" or "Elf" as a prerequisite:

    Cantrips
    Clairvoyance
    Decipher
    Detect/Conceal Arcana
    Detect/Conceal Bloodline
    Elemental Manipulation
    Speak Language
    Hypnotic Trance
    Illusion
    Light
    Locate
    Obscure
    Open/Lock
    Phantasms

    Do you guys think this list should be expanded? If so, how?

    As you can see, this is almost purely Divination & Illusion stuff. Except for Elemental Manipulation, Open/Lock, and Cantrips, there are no other types of magic. In my mind, this captures BR magicians quiet well, but it does leave them without a good bit of utility. Original BR allowed them all 1st & 2nd level spells, so there were useful evocation, abjuration, and transmutation spells.

    I think the restrictive nature of D&D classes demanded access to those spells to prevent magicians from being too specialized and hamstrung. However, the flexible nature of SW character creation means a magician type character can have a wide range of skills and Edges that make him useful and fun to play even though he can't cast Bolt (magic missle) in combat.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks
    Joe

  2. #12
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Actually, why not simply give blooded scions, cerilian dragons, and elfinborn alike a simply unique edge, called Arcane Mebhaighal Intuition or what ever, and use only that as a requirement for all other spells?

    Furthermore, note that you should include more spells. The old material suggested that minor spells (up to 2nd level, not just the lowest of spells) of any kind were available to all mages.

  3. #13
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    Are you trying to convert DnD spells to SW or keep the SW spells?

    I'm a fan of NOT importing spells. You may have to create realm spells but it would be much much easier than balancing every DnD spell.

  4. #14
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    Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaspK_FOG View Post
    Actually, why not simply give blooded scions, cerilian dragons, and elfinborn alike a simply unique edge, called Arcane Mebhaighal Intuition or what ever, and use only that as a requirement for all other spells?

    "Blooded" is an Edge in my conversion, so "Blooded" or Elf covers PC races. I figure monsters (inc. dragons) are custom designed based on GM fiat, so there is no concern about a universal prereq. that must apply to monsters with spellcasting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by RaspK_FOG View Post
    Furthermore, note that you should include more spells. The old material suggested that minor spells (up to 2nd level, not just the lowest of spells) of any kind were available to all mages.
    Yeah. This is an issue I'm wrestling with. To me, a strict limit to Knowing and Seeming type spells make a lot of sense, and allowing magicians access to Web or Magic Missile (or their SW equivilents) always seemed out of place. Like I mentioned above, I always felt like they were thrown in to keep the class from being underpowered since it basically was a variant wizard. I think the very nature of SW rule will prevent a magician character from being too weak since he'll have much more flexibility with skills, Edges, weaponry, etc.

    That said, if we were to increase the spell list for non-blooded spellcasters, what would you suggest we add? i thought about giving blanket access to all spells with a rank requirement of "Novice." That is a big group though (esp. when including the spells from outside sources). it also includes lots of fairly powerful magic like Burst, Boost/Lower Trait, etc.

    Anyone have a suggestion?
    Last edited by jdpb1; 12-11-2007 at 10:24 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    Are you trying to convert DnD spells to SW or keep the SW spells?

    I'm a fan of NOT importing spells. You may have to create realm spells but it would be much much easier than balancing every DnD spell.
    I'm with you Sinister-- no conversion except for Realm Spells. All the spells are straight SW powers.

    I have only added two spells for flavor: "Detect/Conceal Bloodline" and "Suppress Bloodline." The first is really a variant on D/C Arcana (since i wanted to keep the two separate). The second is converted from the BRCS.

    Later on I'll post both is there is interest.

    Thanks
    Joe

  6. #16
    I also agree - no conversion of spells. Just use the SW spell list, plus the additional ones from the Fantasy world builder, etc. that you mentioned.

    Instead of having blooded, or elf as pre-reqs for certain spells, why not divide up the arcane background edges into two:

    Arcane Background (Lesser Magic): Permits access to the list of spells you mentioned for "magician" characters.

    and

    Arcane Background (True Magic): Requires: Blooded Edge or Elf/Half-Elf Race Permits access to the full spell list.

    I think that the list you have put down for magicians is fine. Even though in 2e there were low-level invocations/alterations, etc. I think they were more for "balance" than "flavour". Axe 'em and keep a simplified list of powers for magicians like the one you have.

  7. #17
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    does anyone know of a person that actually chooses to play a magician? I have no idea why someone would play one and most certainly not in this 3.5 munchkin world.

  8. #18
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    In the AD&D Birthright, I have a "back-up" character that has a few levels of spell-casting ability. He could be thought of as a wannabe magician who eventually followed another path (boxman thief). He likes using his "tricks" on the side to help himself get out of trouble, but no more. He is mainly a thief. The casting ability is his little secret.

    I have never actually played him though. Just one of my options if my druid ever dies.

    Sorontar.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tannen View Post
    Instead of having blooded, or elf as pre-reqs for certain spells, why not divide up the arcane background edges into two:

    Arcane Background (Lesser Magic): Permits access to the list of spells you mentioned for "magician" characters.

    and

    Arcane Background (True Magic): Requires: Blooded Edge or Elf/Half-Elf Race Permits access to the full spell list.
    I initially had my notes written that way. I changed it to the singular AB with Blooded or Elf as prereq for spells for two reasons: Bloodtheft and Bards. If there are two ABs and a nonblooded character becomes blooded, there is more complication in order to allow him access to more spells. The current way allows him immediate access.

    For bards, I have written up a Professional Edge that includes spellsong training. This training satisfies the "elf" requirement for a short list of enchantment type spells (e.g. puppet, confuse the mind, etc).

    Now that I look at it, I suppose that my method is no more or less elegant than just having two separate ABs. For bloodtheft, the rule could be that AB True is automatically substituted for AB Lesser (with current known spells remaining the same). The reverse would occur if a character lost his bloodline. For bards, I already have a "special access list," so there is no mechanical or flavor difference at all.

    6 or 1/2 dozen, I suppose. I'll think about this some more. Any suggestions you guys have about this are welcome.

    Joe

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    does anyone know of a person that actually chooses to play a magician? I have no idea why someone would play one and most certainly not in this 3.5 munchkin world.
    I am partial to the magician, but then again- I am a big fan of bards. They defy the traditional roles in D&D parties (tank, blaster, healer, traps), and require creativity to play well.

    I think magician type characters would be far more interesting and fun to play in SW for the reasons stated in my earlier post (i.e. flexibility).

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