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  1. #1
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    Goblin/Giant Empire

    Hi di oh,

    I want to create an empire ruled by Giants and with goblins minions.

    If I split the mountain range and stating it's the "Giant Empire" with 1 province (2).

    My Giant Ruler: Gamamon would earn 2 GB for Province* (2), 2/3 GB for Law** (2), 1 1/3 GB for Guild*** (2) and 1 1/3 GB for Temple**** (2) for a total of 5 1/3 GB per season.

    * Gamamon is the ruler of the Province.
    ** Gamamon has pure control on law.
    *** Guild involve raiding, hunting, foraging and scavaging type activities that contribute to the ruler. (thanks Kgauck!)
    **** Priest of the God of Goblins & Giants prey for they're ruler Gamamon.

    How would cost a Goblin unit ?
    How would cost an Ogre unit ?
    How would cost a Giant unit ?

    Is there information on this kind of domain in BR?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Panics; 11-13-2007 at 10:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Guild, temples, law, and sources could all exist.

    giant/goblin guilds would involve raiding , basic tool making, hunting, foraging, scavaging type activities. Goblins at least can function on a low input-output economy, so GB, which are pretty flexible units of measure, work for goblins just as they do for humans. I might decide that "goblin GB's" don't work out 1:1 to human, so hiring human mercenaries might be especially expensive, but raising goblin hordes would work out just as the realm system suggests.

    Temples are pretty straitforward, I imagine.

    Law would be whatever strongarm institutions your giant ruler provided. Bands of orog bullys, ogre punishers, or goblin informers might all play a part.

    Units would cost the same as human units, because as I suggest above, the costs are based on a goblin econony. Trying to figure out how to break down the quanity vs quality issues of goblins just isn't required with the GB as a unit.
    Last edited by kgauck; 11-13-2007 at 04:28 PM.

  3. #3
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    The BRCS has costs for common goblin units in table 6.1h.

    BR2e has costs in table 22 on page 63 of the Br rulebook - although costs there should be halved for a goblin realm.

    Otherwise look to an existing human unit and tweak it to fit mechanically and thematically. I did something similar for a game and can send you the spreadsheets if you like showing the units I made.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    BRCS tables

    Those BRCS tables are copied on the wiki at http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/ind...mon_army_units

    Sorontar

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Guild, temples, law, and sources could all exist.

    giant/goblin guilds would involve raiding , basic tool making, hunting, foraging, scavaging type activities. Goblins at least can function on a low input-output economy, so GB, which are pretty flexible units of measure, work for goblins just as they do for humans. I might decide that "goblin GB's" don't work out 1:1 to human, so hiring human mercenaries might be especially expensive, but raising goblin hordes would work out just as the realm system suggests.

    Temples are pretty straitforward, I imagine.

    Law would be whatever strongarm institutions your giant ruler provided. Bands of orog bullys, ogre punishers, or goblin informers might all play a part.

    Units would cost the same as human units, because as I suggest above, the costs are based on a goblin econony. Trying to figure out how to break down the quanity vs quality issues of goblins just isn't required with the GB as a unit.

    Well... I think a GB is not that flexible... since a Giant Domain may have great fortification and should cost the same as the human. (ex. a human and giant castle should cost the same (8 GBxlevel) and should offer the same protection)

    Wouldn't it be better to stay on the same basis (1 GB = 2,000 gp) but only reduce the GB cost to muster ? As stated in the table, a goblin unit cost 1 GB has a mercenary unit, but could cost 0.5 GB for a Goblin domain.

    No ? Yes ? don't care goblins are killed too fast ?

  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Using gold pieces as the notional conversion doesn't make as much sense for goblins. What does a goat's stomach full of rat meat get at the local market? Gold Bars mean whatever you need them to mean in terms of stuff. It can be bags of oats, a stock of shortswords, the cows they are still looking for in Mhoried, whatever.

    But I think goblins are less productive, and less in need of stuff, coincidentally in the same proportion. So a day of goblin labor produces a the same portion of goblin need that a day of human labor produces of human need.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be reasonable, then, to apply a simple model of percentile equivalency? For example, goblin estates and so on are accounted for normally, but 1 GB from goblin lands is exchanged for X% worth of human GBs.

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Using gold pieces as the notional conversion doesn't make as much sense for goblins. What does a goat's stomach full of rat meat get at the local market? Gold Bars mean whatever you need them to mean in terms of stuff. It can be bags of oats, a stock of shortswords, the cows they are still looking for in Mhoried, whatever.

    But I think goblins are less productive, and less in need of stuff, coincidentally in the same proportion. So a day of goblin labor produces a the same portion of goblin need that a day of human labor produces of human need.

    Why would goblins need less? They need "different" things, but not really "less" - they should need the same amount of food and supplies, while lacking in "luxury" items.

    Aren't BR goblins actually more civilized than are the MM versions?

    BR goblins are mostly "hobgoblins" (the elite and ruling class goblins) while the bugbears (Large) and goblins (Small) fill in the "muscle" and "servant" ranks.

    I believe that they fall under a similar "industrial development" as the Vos - which explains why their "cities" tend to be smaller than the normal human ones do. (Lacking in "luxury" but still functioning to fill the "needs").

    Remember that BR goblins could actually be magicians in the 2nd ed material - so they have some sort of "society structure" that supports "study and academics" of some kind. As a whole, they are not merely wandering raiders.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I would say the same about the Vos, lower input-output. Game works the same unless you try and buy a lot of Brecht or Khinasi stuff with GB. (mercenaries mostly).

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    Well I've still have difficulty with the idea...

    I do understand your point Kgauck but I don't see the rules like that.

    If I follow your rule, they would have included a X% for human trade and the dwarves or the elves. But there's not, so meaning that the GB value is the same.

    Also, like I said, a Fortification (5) in human territories is mostly to be a great stone castle, so good defense, but following your guideline, a Fortification (5) in goblin territories would be only a wooden fort.

    Is there any book about Spiderfell and Gorgon realms, I think they're not human realms ?

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