Systems other then D & D

[Denakhan]

I have been thinking about using a system other then D&D 3.5 for the Birthright campain setting.

Hiya.

I've used:

• 2nd Edition AD&D
• 1st Edition AD&D
• Powers & Perils
• Hackmaster
• "Darkurthe Legends" --a heavily modified version with my own tweaks.

I've NEVER used 3.x or D20 in any way, shape or form with BR. Of all the above ones I listed, I think Powers & Perils and Hackmaster fit best.

[RaspK_FOG]

Well, HackMaster is a heavily modified AD&D 2e variation, and that's the basis for Birthright, but I don't see it as particularly fitting other than that.

[marcum uth mather]

I use Hero system. I am not sure yet if I like it but the guy's I lay with are all about "realizim of dice rolls". they argue back and forth about the "bell curve" of 3d6. Me, I'm more interested in the story aspect and the emersion of the carector i play. ether way Hero realy lets you costomise a player without being stuck in a DnD archtype. the problem lies with tghe combat system. in a word it sucks.

[Sinister]

well I've never been in love with 3x. Feats appear cool on the surface but they lead to character builds not characters. In fact no one ever sat around making tons of characters for AD&D but in 3x it's a hobby to tinker around with "builds". Same thing goes with prestige classes.

One player told me the other day about his problem, "oh I'd role play a silly of fun character if I could, but considering everyone else is munchkined out, i'd be too far behind the power curve to do that"

The true reason behind 3x is to make a table top RPG that has the characteristics of video games, not only for the easy translation of DnD to computer games (AD&D was a nightmare for computer programers to develop) but also to convince players that more feats and special abilities are required.

The intent behind 4E is to merge video games, online, and table top games, and paid content into one gianormous experience.

Thus as these games morph into something more about competiton electronic interface, online play and paid content it leaves the larpers, character actors, and storytellers scratching our heads and wondering what else is out there.

It's true that 3x can be a storyteller system but it requires alot of work. You need good story oriented players willing to let some of the power crunch go, game masters willing not only to use all the crunchy rules but still manage to have time to put together a good story with of interaction. In the end it's just alot of work for what some "light rules, more social interaction" types want.

All this leads me to recommend a few systems for those that just want to ROLE play and do it quickly:

Savage Worlds - Easy 5 minute character creation. All rules in one book. Has some wonky stuff but generally it's not crunchy. Top 3 generic systems of all time.

d6 - yes the old star wars. IMO the best generic system ever made.

Castle Falkenstien - I'm not sure how a birthright game would run with it but it's got flavor...

Deadlands Classic - This game has the most flavorful mechanic ever. It's rule bulky but still has some great rpg moments.

[Lee]

All this leads me to recommend a few systems for those that just want to ROLE play and do it quickly:

Savage Worlds - Easy 5 minute character creation. All rules in one book. Has some wonky stuff but generally it`s not crunchy. Top 3 generic systems of all time.

d6 - yes the old star wars. IMO the best generic system ever made.



I`m a fan of old d6-- note that West End Games has re-released the rules, with fantasy, modern, and future twists (3 separate hardbacks, but only one needed!).

Isn`t Savage Worlds similar to MWP`s "Cortex System" used in Serenity and Battlestar Galactica RPGs? I have the first of these, and I think I`ve gotten used to it after 2-3 sessions.

Lee.

[stv2brown1988]

[QUOTE=Ltlconf;42244]However the weapons race was on with kewl prestige classes, total lack of disadvantages to balance out the feats, and the potential for characters to eventually give God fits.
...
the Black Company RPGQUOTE]
Tell me about it. I finally decided to create a new PC sheet in Excel and I thought it would be nice to have drop down lists with all of the feats preloaded. Well, I'm at 488 feats so far, (I'm bored), and those are just the ones I've found online! I haven't even started going through the books I don't have electronic copies of.

I'm a huge fan of the Black COmpany novels. How is the Black Company RPG? Does it work well with the novels and their settings/characters?

Steve

[jdpb1]

I agree that Savage Worlds is a great system. I've tried a couple of times to do a Birthright conversion for it, but I was always stymied by converting the regency & domain systems.

About two weeks ago i attacked the problem again, and came to the realization that the bloodline/regency/domain system of the BRCS really isn't all that bad. Not quite the FFF (Fast, Furious, & Fun) SW goes for, but then again, domains are a central facet of BR and need a slightly more complex and detailed system.

What I've done is to convert the RPG mechanics stuff (i.e. feats/edges, skills, blood abilities) into Savage Worlds, and then just kept the domain rules almost completely intact. I needed to tweak some things for compatibility or to streamline things (e.g. bloodline generation, skill/class requirements for regency collection), but basically, the whole D20 based domain system and 1-100 based bloodline score has been simply layered right on top of the SW rules.

SW is great because it really forces you to think about fluff vs. crunch, and flavor vs. mechanics. BR has always attracted me because of the cool history, political backdrop, unique cosmology, take on arcane magic, etc. All the rules crap about level adjustments, picayune skill point allotments, supernatural v. extraordinary vs. spell-like, optimized feat/blood ability/class combos, etc. is utter garbage and gets in the way. Savage Worlds' streamlined rules and flexible character generation also help eliminate many of the issues that still cause great debate around here due to the artificial limitations of D&D (e.g. elven druids / nature magic; creating a useful and sensible Noble character; cloistered clerics vs. battle priests, etc)

SW also allows experienced characters to do powerful stuff but never come anywhere near deity status. More importantly, "low level" characters are still fairly competent. Take a look at a Novice SW wizard type character and compare it to a 1st level, 4 HP, 2 spell a day D&D wizard, and you'll see what I mean. The SW character won't die if he accidentally slips getting out of bed in the morning. Nor will he be impotent 12 seconds after a fight starts. Likewise, a Legendary status SW character can get fragged by a lucky and determined "low level" attacker and will certainly die if he jumps off a 75' cliff. The same cannot be said for a 20th level D&D fighter.

Anyway. . .
I am about 2/3 way through a basic conversion and it's going far better than I ever expected. I'm sure some BR fans would argue with some of the conversion choices I've made because I always chose flexibility, player options, and flavor over a strict translation of mechanics. But hey-- they don't play in my game :-)

Right now my goal is to finish three documents. The first will be a Player's Guide that will function like the player's guides for other Savage Worlds settings. It will have all the fluff background material and character building info (like the first four chapters of the BRCS). The second book will be a slightly revised and streamlined version of the Domain rules (including warfare and Realm magic). Finally, I will do a GM Guide with some monster & NPC conversions, magic items, etc.

I intend to start a new Savaged BR game in January with the PCs starting as unlanded scions. Since they are new to BR (and SW), I'll give them the Player's Guide a week or two in advance to prepare. Once they gain domains, I'll give them the second guide. This way no one is overwhelmed. The GM's guide will be a useful reference for me, as well as an excellent way to "beta test" my conversion

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to discuss the SW conversion with you. I'm always game for input and constructive ideas. The only flaw is that I can't send anyone the documents since I liberally cut & pasted "fluff" sections from the BCRS and certain mechanics descriptions & spells from other Savage Worlds products.

BTW- If you haven't checked out Savage Worlds yet, the basic rules are only $10 !!! See:
http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Worlds-...6887871&sr=8-1

Also, the Savage Worlds website has a ton of great downloads, and one of the most informative, civil, fun and useful forums you'll ever visit. Check out: www.peginc.com

Sorry this has gotten so long winded.

Thanks
Joe

See the new dedicated SW BR thread here: http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...2719#post42719

[RaspK_FOG]

Actually, you are wrong: your average 20th-level fighter (more so a barbarian) can survive falling at terminal velocity; twice; in a row.

[Sinister]

In a message dated 12/5/2007 2:45:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

All this leads me to recommend a few systems for those that just want to
ROLE play and do it quickly:



Savage Worlds - Easy 5 minute character creation. All rules in one book.
Has some wonky stuff but generally it`s not crunchy. Top 3 generic systems of
all time.



d6 - yes the old star wars. IMO the best generic system ever made.




Isn`t Savage Worlds similar to MWP`s "Cortex System" used in Serenity and
Battlestar Galactica RPGs? I have the first of these, and I think I`ve gotten
used to it after 2-3 sessions.

Lee.

0000001)

Yes the cortex system is similar. In fact I rather suprised that their wasn't a much bigger stink from the SW crowd about cortex because it came WAY after SW had been released.

That said I prefer the SW system because it has built in stun mechanic and it still has plot points, they just call them bennies. Plus the SW system has a hero dice that helps heroes out as well.

However, Cortex isn't a bad system. I've played a few firefly games and it's ok.

Oh I should also mention that savage worlds did something just brilliant this past year. They took their 30 dollar core rulebook and made it a $10 softcover, I wish more game publishers would jump on that idea. For $10 bucks you can't go wrong trying Savage Worlds out.

Also while I prefer the old deadlands system they have deadlands for savage worlds.

[Sinister]

Anyway. . .
I am about 2/3 way through a basic conversion and it's going far better than I ever expected. I'm sure some BR fans would argue with some of the conversion choices I've made because I always chose flexibility, player options, and flavor over a strict translation of mechanics. But hey-- they don't play in my game :-)

Right now my goal is to finish three documents. The first will be a Player's Guide that will function like the player's guides for other Savage Worlds settings. It will have all the fluff background material and character building info (like the first four chapters of the BRCS). The second book will be a slightly revised and streamlined version of the Domain rules (including warfare and Realm magic). Finally, I will do a GM Guide with some monster & NPC conversions, magic items, etc.

I intend to start a new Savaged BR game in January with the PCs starting as unlanded scions. Since they are new to BR (and SW), I'll give them the Player's Guide a week or two in advance to prepare. Once they gain domains, I'll give them the second guide. This way no one is overwhelmed. The GM's guide will be a useful reference for me, as well as an excellent way to "beta test" my conversion

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to discuss the SW conversion with you. I'm always game for input and constructive ideas. The only flaw is that I can't send anyone the documents since I liberally cut & pasted "fluff" sections from the BCRS and certain mechanics descriptions & spells from other Savage Worlds products.

Thanks
Joe

Although I don't have much time I would love to see the conversion and offer my thoughts. If there was a really tight rulebook I could see myself using it other that 3E or 4E in the future.