Ilien

[Sorontar]

Likewise, I have issues with Rjurik using heraldry. I just don't see them as needing such identification due to their nomadic nature and the different approach to regal inheritance they have when compared to the dynastic system of the Anuireans.

I agree that it isn't very elvish either. Dwarves wouldn't as such have arms, they would have trademarks that they would carve on their work/buildings etc. This would sometimes be extended to banners etc. I can see the Vos using more symbols on banners than following any complex heraldic rules. Ditto for Orog and Goblins. The importance of status and association in the Brecht and the Khinasi give reason for them to use heraldry.

IMHO most of the heraldry would be whatever the College of Arms (CoA) declares it to be. Therefore, if the CoA declares that the Kraken has arms, then it does. The Awnie doesn't have a say in the matter. This would be a hangover from the empire.

On that point, has anyone established what the role of the heralds is in "present day" Cerilia? Is there actually any traditionalists who call themselves the College of Arms, or does each kingdom just create its own CoA and its own heraldic rules? Is the CoA just part of the Chancellor's office? Do realms let it continue after the "death" of the empire because it may help them prove the legitimacy of their regent's claim to the Imperial throne?

[Nameless One]

Likewise, I have issues with Rjurik using heraldry. I just don't see them as needing such identification due to their nomadic nature and the different approach to regal inheritance they have when compared to the dynastic system of the Anuireans.

I don't see the Rjurik as nomadic, except for the tribesmen. Maybe the ancient Rjuven, but certainly not the "modern" Rjurik. Even if they didn't develop heraldry on their own, most Rjurik realms were part of Anuirean Empire and many of them of their own will and retaining their own Rjurik rulers as vassals of the Emperor, and so I think they certainly would have adopted heraldry during that age. I don't think that every jarl has a CoA, but the realms and the major families certainly do.

I agree that it isn't very elvish either. Dwarves wouldn't as such have arms, they would have trademarks that they would carve on their work/buildings etc. This would sometimes be extended to banners etc. I can see the Vos using more symbols on banners than following any complex heraldic rules. Ditto for Orog and Goblins. The importance of status and association in the Brecht and the Khinasi give reason for them to use heraldry.

Hmmm, Dwarves would certainly have some form of symbols for their clans as their assiciation with their clans is very important to them.

Elves are strange and that's it, especially Birthright Elves. They treat plants and animals almost as their equals, yet they had the largest empire on Cerilia before the humans came and that empire had a ruler and nobles and court and so on. "Modern" Elven realms also have all those things. Elves are very different and unusual when compared in detail with other races, but in general their culture seems to have developed the same things as other cultures so it is not impossible to consider them the inventors CoA.

On that point, has anyone established what the role of the heralds is in "present day" Cerilia? Is there actually any traditionalists who call themselves the College of Arms, or does each kingdom just create its own CoA and its own heraldic rules? Is the CoA just part of the Chancellor's office? Do realms let it continue after the "death" of the empire because it may help them prove the legitimacy of their regent's claim to the Imperial throne?

note: When I type CoA I mean Coat of Arms.

I think Anuirean nobles consider their CoA to be the part of their ancestry as much as their family name and as much as the lands they hold, but I don't think they have anything to do with legitimacy of claim to the Iron Throne. I also don't think that Anuirean nobles (at least majority of them) consider the Empire dead. Even if it was consider dead, I doubt they would abandon the tradition of CoA. I see nobles as proud of their CoA just like you are probably proud of your country's flag, and newly established noble families would probably want to make up their own CoA as soon as possible so as not to be seen as inferior to the others.

[kgauck]

I don't think the nomadic Rjurik have heraldry either. The settled Rjurik of the Taelshore certainly would, especially, as Nameless One suggested, it was a custom they adopted during the long years of Empire.

Each of the nations, should have different kinds of arms stylisticlly. Hopefully, its clear that the Rjurik have a different look, just looking at Stjordvik.

http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/ind...main:Stjordvik

[Thelandrin]

As regards the College of Arms, I am certain that there would be only one, based in the Imperial City and under the watchful eye of the Chamberlain. After all, having heralds and a college etc. are meaningless if several exist, each sponsoring tens or hundreds of coats-of-arms, many of which would be identical.