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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Natural Resources by Provence???

    :confused:


    Has anyone read anything about specific natural resources for individual provences????

    Is there an integrated system that accounts for the increased income by Holding by level on this site or in the 2nd ed game????

    How would (merchant) holding level affect the natural resource productions & exploitation???

    Later


  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatanThunder View Post
    Has anyone read anything about specific natural resources for individual provences????
    A civ-type system of resources was mooted a while back, comments from memory centered around these resources allowing additional trade routes, trade between similar terrains with different resources, +1 Gb to trade routes etc.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The increased income by Holding by level represents volume as well as economies of scale and possibly vertical integration as well.

    If I have a guild holding (2) in a level 3 province, and the province increases to level 4, you're doing more business, or your existing business has new opportunities to make money. Either way, your income increases.

    I don't think that guild holding level affect the natural resource productions & exploitation at all. Rather I think that people will be logging or mining, or whatever, and no guilder would be skimming the operation, and there would be no capital accumulation, so operations would always be small. So a large province with a lot of, say timber, would have many small logging operations by independents, rather than one large operation by a guilder.

    The PS's describe individual resources in provinces, but its really just descriptive, not something that impacts the domains.

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    It is far from a Civ based issue for me.

    I just wondered what is out there in the way of issues of commerce/trade/resources that could be integrated into the game. It appears that whatever "mooted is" & that it has been decided to leave the issue out of BR which may not cut it in my version.

    Yes people will exploit natural resources, but using the old west as an analogy, there is nothing like a precious metal strike to drive a local economy. It is a boom and bust cycle, unless it is a renewable (and renewed) resource, but there should be a place for it in the game. Possibly under random events at the least.

    Wasn't it the Greek's who took the silver from a strike and converted it into a fleet for the Agean. Sort of forced the whole Thermopyle issue to as I recall. So the boom and bust cycle of natural resources needs to be in there somewhere.

    Any ideas on how to implement it as a part of random events, or in some other form???????

    Later


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    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    You might want to check out Mongoose's Strongholds & Dynasties, it deals extensively with resources. Basically, it describes resources by frequency, from common to very rare, and refinement (crude, processed, crafted or fine). Both descriptors influence the value, and resources provide the main income for a domain. I find the system interesting, but probably more suited for single provinces or smaller realms, as it involves more bookkeeping.

    With regard to CIV, I thought about introducing strategic resources similar to Civ III, i.e. you need horses in a province to raise cavalry units, you need iron for just about every unit, and heavy warhorses for knights. By limiting these resources to a number of provinces, trade becomes vital for most realms and it is harder to raise the more expensive units. Something like this is probably the easiest way to incorporate resources into a BR campaign.

    Finally, regarding a gold rush as a random event, there a quite a few possibilities here. The province and holding rulers might gain more income, it might be easier to rule up the province level as lots of people come that area, but lawlessness probably also increases, possibly resulting in a loss of loyalty and maybe leading to brigandage in the province.

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    You might want to check out Mongoose's Strongholds & Dynasties, it deals extensively with resources.
    Thanks for the info. I am always looking for a good buy, even if I have to convert it to my preference of 2nd ed.

    With regard to CIV, I thought about introducing strategic resources similar to Civ III, i.e. you need horses in a province to raise cavalry units, you need iron for just about every unit, and heavy warhorses for knights. By limiting these resources to a number of provinces, trade becomes vital for most realms and it is harder to raise the more expensive units. Something like this is probably the easiest way to incorporate resources into a BR campaign.
    This a a very good idea. It also makes key provinces much fought/sought after and would have hot points of contention. Those horse lords near the Gorgon might just consider moving their herds. (Sort of gets you thinking about the mobility of some type of resources also.).

    I do like the idea in regards to unit limitations.

    Finally, regarding a gold rush as a random event, there a quite a few possibilities here. The province and holding rulers might gain more income, it might be easier to rule up the province level as lots of people come that area, but lawlessness probably also increases, possibly resulting in a loss of loyalty and maybe leading to brigandage in the province.
    I like your take on the problems with the rush idea. The lawlessness just begs for some type of paladin to ride in to establish law and order....... Maybe Sir Wyatish Erpsish, and his loyal (if lawless) follower/friend sir Doctish Holidayish. Wielding those nifty 6 shooter hand crossbows from the old Red Steel releases of the Savage Baronies on Mystara. LOL>>>>>>>>

    Just ideas???

    Later

    Last edited by MatanThunder; 09-12-2007 at 07:49 AM.

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    kgauck schrieb:
    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at:
    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3984
    > kgauck wrote:
    >
    ...
    > I don`t think that guild holding level affect the natural resource productions & exploitation at all. Rather I think that people will be logging or mining, or whatever, and no guilder would be skimming the operation, and there would be no capital accumulation, so operations would always be small. So a large province with a lot of, say timber, would have many small logging operations by independents, rather than one large operation by a guilder.
    >
    > The PS`s describe individual resources in provinces, but its really just descriptive, not something that impacts the domains.
    >
    That is with the exception of the 2E Players Secrets of Talinie which
    had special rules for the devastation of the land by the unchecked
    activities of the guilders.

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Melyy in Vosgaard has a gold rush in the Tribes sourcebook, when rolling income (a 2e BR concept) if you rolled a maximum you had a boom (roll a gain for extra income, open ended rolls), on a 1 you had a bust - no income at all and a 10% cumulative chance that you lose a holding/province level. While this sounds great the open ended rolls only actually adds 1 to the average take whatever dice you use. In the BRCS I'd add boom/bust to the random events table, or roll a D6 (1=bust, 6=boom) to reflect the fluctuating fortunes of prospectors.


    The current system is designed purely for simplicity, and effectively equates to each province producing a specific resource type for each culture, thus requiring trade routes to be between different terrain or culture types. The idea is, I think, to force people to have trade routes with other realms rather than just linking up their own provinces.

    The civ idea of adding different resource types would not only allow trade within realms more easily (i.e. plains province A trades beer for cotton in plains province B) but as noted allows bottlenecks (we all need dwarven steel to make knights, they only export enough to support 'x' units so if we can corner the market...' so has both negative and positive aspects - whatever works for your game. The Tribes book again notes restrictions on Varsk units based on holdings of varsk breeders.


    I think that the devastation in Taline - also noted to a lesser extent in Dhoesone - arises due to the way the guilds in those realms conduct themselves. I might consider allowing a guild to get benefits from 'raping the land' by deforesting, open cast mining, etc with it then left to the province/realm ruler to say 'oi!' and complain about their forest province being cleared to plains and possibly even desert, assuming of course that the elves don't complain first...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    I think that the devastation in Taline - also noted to a lesser extent in Dhoesone - arises due to the way the guilds in those realms conduct themselves. I might consider allowing a guild to get benefits from 'raping the land' by deforesting, open cast mining, etc with it then left to the province/realm ruler to say 'oi!' and complain about their forest province being cleared to plains and possibly even desert, assuming of course that the elves don't complain first...
    yes but "raping the land" produces more profit and more work for the people, that produces more new towns and people, that produces more taxpayers and more potential soldiers, that produces more money for the regent, unless the regent is too weak ruler, and way would any regent say "oi!" ?
    Sorry but i don't believe in the conscience of the humans, except if the regent is a wizard, or have really powerful wizard adviser who will use that power of the nature in the name of the regent and for the good of the country.

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    "raping the land" produces more profit
    Rape is such a harsh word....lets say exploitation of natural resources shall we!!. I am from No Cal so we have our tree hugger society on the coast that would be appauled at the notion of exploitation of old growth forests, but they wouldn't call is "Rape" for the most part.

    <edited to split thread>

    Later

    Last edited by AndrewTall; 09-18-2007 at 07:58 PM.

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