Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 35 of 35
  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwrthefyr View Post
    These interdicts were so hugely reinterpreted as to be nearly void in some areas and periods - more than one Andalusian prince realized the sheer importance of wine in their economies, groups like the Alevis and the Bektashis, the general liberalization of the Ottoman Empire during the Tanzimat period (much too late, I agree, but in the renaissance, we have a sultan of Rum dying of a cyrrhosis), a certain tendency for many middle and upper class (practicing) moslems to consider that it's okay so long as they're sober for prayer. There are also a few alcoholic beverages still native to Syria (IIRC, Raki); and most of the Basarji hardly live in a desert.

    And Umar Khayyam would hardly have used wine for his metaphors if it had been so universally loathed as pretended.
    Quite so, Gwrthefyr! But don't forget that such wineswigging wastrels tend to pay the price in the end. The Alevis have been for much of their history a reviled and persecuted people, and the Almoravids, limp from their drink and flowery poetry, were easy prey for the Almohads. When the conquerors in turn took on the vices of the conquered, the Spaniards were all too happy to kick them out in turn.

    As for the cyrrhos'd sultan - I remember one of the Abbasid caliphs died of asphyxiation when his half-sister and lover sat on his face for just a little longer than the good man could hold his breath. But that, too, was a somewhat atypical incident...

  2. #32
    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Neoplantis, Republic of Serbia
    Posts
    207
    Downloads
    96
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by willezurmacht View Post
    As for the cyrrhos'd sultan - I remember one of the Abbasid caliphs died of asphyxiation when his half-sister and lover sat on his face for just a little longer than the good man could hold his breath. But that, too, was a somewhat atypical incident...
    it is surprising how power tends to corrupt people, and how immoral thy can become .
    I mean read the 12 Emperors of Rome(De vita Caesărum) by Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus and it will be clear to you.

  3. #33
    Suetonius isn't exactly known for his trustworthiness, and people in the know when it comes to the Latin say nasty things about his prose style as well. But then he does write a mean gorefest of a tale!

  4. #34
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    I wouldn't consider any specific claims reliable in Seutonious, but the general claims attributed to him by cccpxepoj, namely, "it is surprising how power tends to corrupt people, and how immoral thy can become," seems pretty reliable. Sure Seutonious may have elected to relate compelling but questionable stories and likely exagerations to relate the culture of corruption and immorality he saw, rather than less compelling but firmly accurate stories, but these authorial choices do not cast doubt on his ultimate conclusions, which could be argued without any specific social circumstances. The statement, "it is surprising how power tends to corrupt people, and how immoral thy can become," seems pretty solid.

  5. #35
    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Neoplantis, Republic of Serbia
    Posts
    207
    Downloads
    96
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    I wouldn't consider any specific claims reliable in Seutonious, but the general claims attributed to him by cccpxepoj, namely, "it is surprising how power tends to corrupt people, and how immoral thy can become," seems pretty reliable. Sure Seutonious may have elected to relate compelling but questionable stories and likely exagerations to relate the culture of corruption and immorality he saw, rather than less compelling but firmly accurate stories, but these authorial choices do not cast doubt on his ultimate conclusions, which could be argued without any specific social circumstances. The statement, "it is surprising how power tends to corrupt people, and how immoral thy can become," seems pretty solid.
    My point exactly, thank you.
    And of course I know that Suetonius is not a reliable source of information but if 99% of his writhing is a lie, then that 1% makes me sick.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Map Of Cerilia
    By Bernardo in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-11-2010, 10:52 AM
  2. Mead throughout Cerilia
    By Arjan in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-06-2007, 02:56 PM
  3. Map Of Cerilia ?
    By Ninqualda in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-01-2003, 05:27 PM
  4. Atlas of Cerilia
    By Raesene Andu in forum Birthright.net Official Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-11-2003, 08:53 PM
  5. Cerilia
    By zukie in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-24-2002, 09:36 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.