Are wondrous structures worth it?

[AndrewTall]

The time and cost to create a structure should depend on how 'wondrous' the structure is. When writing the PS of Danigau (in typesetting) I found that Danigau could not legitimately build Brecht roundships - despite being described as one of the two realms that could possibly build tower ships and therefore one of the greatest shipbuilders in all Cerilia.

To avoid inflating a province to Level 6 I decided on a wondrous structure - the great shipyards of Blackruft - which allowed the province to build ships as though a level larger.

That's still something special - the shipyards presumably being far greater than a province that size would expect to have or maintain (thus the high cost) but the effect did not seem excessive for a relatively 'small' wonder.

Similarly the 'hanging gardens' of Baruk Azhik i.e. terraced and irrigated hillsides to permit farming of steep slopes, might allow a province to exceed the normal population level by 1 or 2.

Monuments can be handy fix-its in such a manner where the setting is less than helpful to a DM in explaining the how and why of something. Monuments are very expensive to build and maintain (which will stop them littering the landscape) and in cold hard cash terms probably are outweighed by infrastructure impovements, but if they allow a regent to do something special - take another standard action, cast a domain spell cheaply, etc - the cash cost could be outweighed by other bonuses.

I would personally add natural wonders to artificial ones - a great tree of the elves tied to the world of the fey that enhances spellcasting, grants knowledge of the surrounding forests, etc would be one possibility, a series of great underground caverns that allow the dwarves or orogs to expand would be another. I would generally give these a RP rather than GB cost, or a mixture of the two to reflect the fact that money alone could not create them.

[irdeggman]

Just as point of reference for wondrous structures:

From Book of Regency:


When regents build things, they should do so for a purpose. Realm regents tend to build roads and bridges for the benefit of other regents in the province as well as themselves—guildmasters, for example, need roads to run trade routes even as armies benefit from roads when they move. As a result, only realm regents interested in

gaining favor with other regents tend to build entirely on their own initiative. After all, if a guildmaster wants a road so he can establish a trade
route, let h i m pay for at least part of it—either with gold, Regency Points, or some other consideration, or by expending his own action instead
of the realm regent using his. Province ru ler s should support their allies, but they also have to think toward building a future for themselves.
Creative regents can build all manner of interesting structures. A regent might choose to build an edifice or “work of wonder” to attract trade or
support for his holding. For example, a re g e n t who controls a trade port might choose to build a giant lighthouse. He could have to spend upwards
of 3d6 GB to construct the “work of wonder,” but he could gain a modifier to the number of Gold Bars he receives in taxes or trade, and
the DM might increase the amount of Regency Points he gains per turn because people flock to see the edifice—and support him for building it

So while it reeks of the Civ series of games it was alluded to in the BoR.

[RaspK_FOG]

I find that it was a good, natural choice; it's not so much reeking of Civ, in a sense: did not that idea crop up from the historical fact that people in ancient times, just like today, would flock to the monument if they were anywhere near it just to set their eyes upon such a wonder? In fact, would you not consider it a wasted chance if you were close to the Great Wall of China and did not even look at it with your own naked eyes?

[geeman]

At 07:18 PM 8/6/2007, RaspK_FOG wrote:

>I find that it was a good, natural choice; it`s not so much reeking
>of Civ, in a sense: did not that idea crop up from the historical
>fact that people in ancient times, just like today, would flock to
>the monument if they were anywhere near it just to set their eyes
>upon such a wonder? In fact, would you not consider it a wasted
>chance if you were close to the Great Wall of China and did not even
>look at it with your own naked eyes?

I think we should be careful in dealing with scale a bit
here. Naturally, we think of truly vast "wondrous structures" as
examples, but we`re really talking about things that would be very
tiny in comparison. The Seven Wonders were vast, nation-spanning
structures. Something that a regent draws an extra +1 RP is going to
be pretty tiny in comparison. Given the levels of technology,
population and scale of the current rules a "Wondrous Structure" at
the BR domain level might be something more like a really good water
clock, an impressive statue, gilt castle walls, a temple spire,
etc. These might still be things that we might consider "tourist
attractions" and that have a practical purpose, but the number of
tourists attracted and the scope of their purpose should be relatively modest.

Gary

[kgauck]

I find that it was a good, natural choice; it's not so much reeking of Civ, in a sense: did not that idea crop up from the historical fact that people in ancient times, just like today, would flock to the monument if they were anywhere near it just to set their eyes upon such a wonder? In fact, would you not consider it a wasted chance if you were close to the Great Wall of China and did not even look at it with your own naked eyes?

If you read the monuents descriptions as posted (see link above) they are obviously taken directly from Civilization.

[irdeggman]

If you read the monuents descriptions as posted (see link above) they are obviously taken directly from Civilization.

And none of them are specified in the BRCS - it is deliberately vague on the details for the reasons people mentioned earlier (DM should determine viability, etc.) The BRCS only gives "minimums" in this case (minimum cost to build, maintenance and RP benefit) - anything else is up to the player and DM to come to agreement on.

IMO you are very much correct in what the fans used to develop the examples referenced.

[Thelandrin]

Of course though, even if you just reference the seven wonders of the world, you end up with two great temples (Diana of the Ephesians & Zeus of Olympia), two great tombs (Pyramids & Mausoleum of Halicarnassus), a great statue (Colossus of Rhodes), a great lighthouse (Pharos of Alexandria) and a great garden (Hanging Gardens of Babylon).

[RaspK_FOG]

Allow me to explain: while they are based off of Civ, the very concept is a natural phenomenon by all means. In fact, I find it natural that games such as Ages of Empires included the concept in turn!

As for my earlier example... Well, we of course have smaller, but equally (or more) important: the Lighthouse of Alexandria, its Library, Phoedias's gold-and-ivory statue of Athena in Athens, and so many other "small" monuments were sites commonly visited by travellers and others alike, their grandeur and splendour being magnificent in their lives.