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  1. #1
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    Question Are wondrous structures worth it?

    To build a wondrous structure you have to spend huge amounts of GB, and maintenance is 2GB per level. All you get is 1 RP per level.
    So just in maintenance you're spending 2GB for 1RP.
    It seems for most holding types you get more regency than gold, anyway.
    Is the option just there so you can say "Hey, I built that, it's cool!"
    It doesn't seem reasonable from a mechanics standpoint, unless I missed something.
    Is it really just there for the cool factor, or is there something else?

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Most of the wondrous structures give an additional benefit - the 1 RP is supposed to simply be a standard benefit to reflect the fact that the wonder is something glorious.

    Sepsis put some Monuments on the wiki:

    http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Monuments

    There are others around on various sites but those should give an idea of wonders.

  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I think the monuments were an idea borrowed from the Sid Meyer series of Civilization strategy games and ported into Birthright. It has always struck me as artifical and less than compelling.

  4. #4
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    I have one player that suggested a bonus to domain attitude.
    It represents the morale boost of having the structure.
    I can understand wanting something like this, I just don't know how it should work in game.

  5. #5
    Well, it's supposed to represent a regent building a status symbol to flaunt their excess cash - the boni may be hard to balance, but I doubt it should be something balanced (as in, you get you money's worth); if the owner of the wonder had cared, he'd have bought ships, or invested in infrastructure, bureaucracy, founded colleges, hospitals, raised a bigger standing army, put cash aside and maybe loaned some, fund a colonial venture, etc.

    [Thinking] Something with regency and maybe loyalty, plus, in RP terms, the very likely possibility that your realm will become a trade magnet because most guilders will know you have money to waste, perhaps an increased occurence of certain events (petitions to reduce taxes, prospective advisors/lieutenants, etc.) indicating it as well.
    Any other advantage should probably be tied with the practical use of the building. Maybe with some limited improvement, but never as efficient as a similarly costly but more utilitarian one, or something.

  6. #6
    Of course it's worth it! I remind my other Birthright fans, the original College of Sorcery, a gigantic tower in the City of Anuire, would have qualified as a wonderous structure. A magical school could have provided easy access to wizard lieutenants, a great storage area of arcane lore, as well as, no doubt, enough magical power to accomplish imperial objectives (Such as the Shadow Gates used by Reole against the Vos where he tried to conquer the wastes). Something so spectacular is noteworthy and remembered. And of course it was hugely expensive. But the prestige made it one of a kind.

    The Imperial Palace could have in and of itself been another wonderous structure, a fanciful and functional home for an Emperor and his family, a Court unmatched throughout Cerilia.

    It makes sense as something else for a very successful regent to do with all those GB's, when he's sheparded a kingdom along for a lifetime, gained great fame and fortune, and wants to leave his mark on the land and it's people. I think it enhances the game. The game mechanics benefits from wonderous structures could be nearly anything, depending on function and design.

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    I agree costs seem to outweigh value in current rules.

    However a wondrous structure can provide any sort of benefit you can get the Gm to agree to. This is usually constricted by game balance.

    Providing diplomacy bonus in addition to a court is a good one. People are usually drawn to see and impressed by a wonder.

    The Imperial tower of wizardry obviously had a whole other bunch of effects - some of which would probably be more obviously roleplayed than just in the rules.

    Building a 300' tall statue to Haelyn would probably have more effects than 1 RP. The faithful flocking to see. Priesthood loving you. etc etc.

  8. #8
    I prefer, personally, this situation, when cost outweigh value. I do not like idea of anuirean, khinasi and brecht provinces littered by wonders of the world.
    When my players build something wondrous, I assign them somewhat subtle bonuses. +2... +4 to counter enemy Agitate action (it was kind of Great Hospital), 1 free court action once per season (Grand Palace for meetings of neighbour nobles), +2 free levels of fortification for law holding (magically built fortress in goblin lands), +4 to seaworthiness checks in province's coastal waters (Great Lighthouse, of course). And few RP, as usual. On the other side, I never appraise these projects more, than 40-50 GB (well, it can be more, but 80 GB is cost of great fortification for Imperial City). This fortress is wonder in itself.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Real life analogues to wonders took decades, sometimes over a century to build. The benefits to magnificence is real and profound, but if a PC wants a marevelous thing constructed, it won't be done while he lives unless he is a long lived individual.

  10. #10
    Remember that the rules in the BRCS are a guide, not a step-by-step manual for play. It clearly mentions that complicated structures (hanging gardens) could take significantly longer to build. As for provinces being littered with wonders... If many realms can afford to spend 100+ RP/GB on a project, it makes me wonder the level of random events/aggressiveness in that game. In Anuire, I doubt Avanil or Boeruine could easily start a massively expensive project such as that without placing a gigantic burden on their treasury, and weakening their overall strategic position/effort. It also takes 1 DT per level to plan. A great lighthouse(say, 6) would take 6 DT just to plan. Then constructing it can have all sorts of things go wrong, almost any random event could hamper construction, making a wonder an accomplishment of an entire regent's reign, not just a simple project like a road.

    Only a stable, secure realm, militarily, politically, magically, ect, could even complete and hold on to a wonder. It would be disasterous to have a structure that took 15 years to build be destroyed by a Raid Province action.

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