Why 2nd ed is better than 3.5

[RaspK_FOG]

Which, all in all, means that, say, a 20th-level character gets +20/+15/+10/+5, -4, or +16/+11/+6/+1 with, say, grabbing hold of a broken fence-post to use it as a great-club (also note that it will deal less damage than a real great-club - say, either 1d6 or 1d8, according to its size). Doing the same with a branch that had some plates fit on haphazardly would probably be a rough-and-tumble sort of a greatclub, which, I guess, works like a greatclub with a -1 penalty on the attack and damage rolls (-2 if little preperation has been made for a poorly shaped branch).

[AndrewTall]

Which standard rule?
Improvised weapons (pg 113 of the PHB) have a -4 to attack (because you are non-proficient, since they are not "weapons").

I was referring to the comment RaspK_Fog made on weapons that are 'nearly weapons' i.e. -1 or -2 BAB not -4 for truly bizarre items. It made the math easier late at night... But I'd use the same principle for a weapon that was -4 as one -4 i.e. a cumulative -4 penalty not simply a recurrent penalty.

So something truly useless as a weapon (-4) would, for a L20 fighter (ignoring other modifiers) +16/+7/- [-4 on first, -5-4-4 on second, -5-4-4-4 on third negating attack] not +16/+11/+6/+1. [-4 on each]

[Lord Rahvin]

I agree with irdeggman`s earlier evaluation of the editions of D&D.

I don`t miss the mechanics of 2e very much, but I do miss the "flavor" of
the rules and implied setting. I don`t think 3e has less of flavor or an
implied setting, (if anything the implication is much stronger,) but the
flavor is less desireable to me. I like (and miss) the pseudo-midieval
nature of 2e D&D and what seemed a desire to play various mythological and
fantasy genres with 2e, as opposed to 3e which seems to want to force you
into a completely different exclusive "D&D mythology".

[kgauck]

But that's just because they included a default setting. Ignore that and replace it with your prefered pseudo-medieval or mythological, and all is well. Plus there are so many supporting settings using the OGL that include tons of flavor and a few mechanics to handle setting specific issues. Playing these kinds of things (and I loved the green Campaign Sourcebooks) meant a lot of special rules and added complexity.

[RaspK_FOG]

@AndrewTall: Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but you are breaking the mechanic; the rules (a preset penalty of -4 for improvised weapons, -2 for inappropriate materials, -1 for subpar weapons; -5 cumulative for each attack after the 1st) work fine just as they are.

[AndrewTall]

@AndrewTall: Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but you are breaking the mechanic; the rules (a preset penalty of -4 for improvised weapons, -2 for inappropriate materials, -1 for subpar weapons; -5 cumulative for each attack after the 1st) work fine just as they are.

No worries, whatever works in your game - I was wondering how such a change would work so mentioned it - I wouldn't normally expect people to use improvised weapons outside of tavern brawls and the like, so extending the mechanic to really hit secondary attacks didn't seem a problem to me, and might possibly persuade an overly arrogant PC's that they do need to surrender to the authorities after a brawl - that club won't actually be much good against the watch after all...