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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    He also in my understanding has no wish to rule a human kingdom - just to kill them all. His aim therefore has to be to foster the human bickering and cause even greater skism and collapse in the empire. If he can engineer great destruction and warfare between human nations and weaken them sufficiently then he might find great opportunities. Small opportunities might present themselves - If Alam invaded Tournen I'm sure Rhoube wouldn't mind eradicating the population of a couple of Tournen's provinces while their armies were busy fighting Alamies army.
    Exactly so! "I love the sound of humans killing each other. It sounds like... victory."


    Ryan

  2. #22
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    Exactly so! "I love the sound of humans killing each other. It sounds like... victory."


    Ryan

    I too agree.

    I believe that this aspect is one the he developed over the centuries. (The ability/tendency to "manipulate" humans agaisnt humans). In the beginning I think he was much more of a hands-on kind of fella. He personnally led the troops (and raiding parties) and probably didn't feel it was satisfying if he himself didn't kill many of the humans his groups had targeted.

    But with regency (and time) comes "wisdom" and the ability to see the "bigger picture"- unless you are insane, like the spider.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #23
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    "Mortals! I have tolerated you, for far too long..."

    Well, when I played Lachlan, Rhuobhe's full-Elven heir, he was a Ranger/Sorcerer/Scion of Azrai, gearing up for Darkwood Stalker. I used the Elven Ranger version (where you swap out spell-casting for terrain bonuses) and exchanged the Ranger combat style for Fast Movement. He was also wearing a +1 twilight mithril chain shirt so as to ignore ASF.

    Lachlan was never happier than when he was killing humans, though hunting half-humans and slagging off clerics came a close second.

  4. #24

    Somewhat related

    Someone at some point on the Darksun boards made calculations for levelled NPCs - going with the XP award system, most NPCs will not do any significant levelling up after 7th level - by the time he reached Epic level, unless the Manslayer decided to personally take on someone his size, take on all of Anuire's armies with his bodyguard and army, or managed to set up a conspiracy to get the Anuireans to vacate the Aelvinwode*, there's little chance to actually level up, so his main option would be to train on a regular basis (for XP, spare skill points, etc.), which means he would indeed go forth at a snail's pace.

    On the other hand, that also means that many princes will also get stuck, in the end, around mid/mid-high levels.

    Of course there are other ways (house rules, history/roling awards, etc.) to manage level ups.


    *Now, I like enthusiastic DMs, but IMC, I have considered it, and he certainly had the time for it, so I won't be doing it - there's more chance of a Raesene Imperator (or King of Anuire, depending on what setup I choose**)

    **That setup may not interest many, but it was tied on a piece I posted much earlier under my brother's nick as an attempted "rationalist's account of Deismaar"
    Last edited by Gwrthefyr; 06-14-2007 at 11:05 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    I believe that this aspect is one the he developed over the centuries. (The ability/tendency to "manipulate" humans agaisnt humans). In the beginning I think he was much more of a hands-on kind of fella. He personnally led the troops (and raiding parties) and probably didn't feel it was satisfying if he himself didn't kill many of the humans his groups had targeted.
    Yes, definitely. In fact, I think this process is a significant aspect of what his boxed-set card means by "he has become more and more lawful, his life dedicated more to preserving and expanding the elven way of life at the cost of enjoying his own."


    Ryan

  6. #26
    Senior Member Dcolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    But that is exactly the effect I want from the Manslayer, at least if I am running a non-elven campaign; that is, as a potential ally, his power has to be much less than if he is an enemy. From the POV of the humans, I don't want him to be the Witch-King of Angmar, or even Sauron -- I want him to be *Morgoth*, whose wayward glance no PC will ever be powerful enough to survive. I want him to be the kind of foe that can only be faced by appealing to an external higher power: you can't ever fight him directly, you can only have Earendil sail to Aman to ask the Valar to fight him for you. To make a D&D analogy, I want it to be similar to the part of Temple of Elemental Evil where Iuz shows up, and the party's goal is simply to survive until St. Cuthbert appears to protect them, then he and Iuz disappear to handle things on their own somewhere else. Even if a human PC reunited not only Anuire, but all of Cerilia under his banner, I would never let him conquer Rhoubhe's one lone province by purely military means; I would instead require a major adventure quest to convince the gods or some other equivalently powerful extraplanar beings to fight Rhoubhe for him.
    Ryan
    This as I said before is a matter of styles I suppose... I never ran the TOEE but I played it and disliked having the "Cavalry Rescue" at the end. I enjoyed the ending of the Vault of the Drow much more so (Even though I and several other PC's did not survive the confrontation with Lolth the party was victorius) and the ending was much more satisfying. (For me)

    I also think groups that play with a certain D.M. and stay together for years are attracted to the style of adventures that D.M. runs.

    My group are a proud lot and are not keen on adventures that take the ultimate "confrontation" out of their hands. They want Rhoubhe, he has messed with their homes and families, their homeland has run red with the blood of their kin because of him. (Ironic huh...since he hates Humans the same way) In the end they will want to bring him to heel by their own hands, directly especialy after having to cowtow in the Sword and Crown.

    Again just styles I suppose.
    Good Morning Peasant!!

  7. #27
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcolby View Post
    In the end they will want to bring him to heel by their own hands, directly especialy after having to cowtow in the Sword and Crown.
    In the ned they should be able to.

    But when that end is becomea a matter of opinion.

    They should not know "how" powerful he is when they first face him. It should be all rumors and the like. Maybe a small attempt at trying to "take him" - which he of course rebuffs as if they were mere insects (which they are compared to him at the levels they should be for the adventure).


    They should not even think about taking him on until they have become very powerful regents in their own right. That is just a matter of how things should be. He was one of the "champions" at Deismaar - the greatest Epic event that the world has known to this point. He survived. That should put things in perspective, IMO. He survived when the old gods died and was right close to Azrais himself. Well so say the legends (and play up the legends a lot when taking about Deismaar, it makes things a lot more dramatic.)

    At what point in their career should they be able to defeat someone who survived that event?

    they almost sound like a friend of mine. When I ran and he was a 1st level regent of Roesone he was planning on how he could take out the Gorgon. Come on now - I should have smitten his character right then in principle.
    Duane Eggert

  8. #28
    Senior Member Dcolby's Avatar
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    Oh by no means are they inexperianced players. They are not seeking a confrontation with Rhoubhe at 4th-6th level at all. I just recognise that at least one of them, if not all will wish to "one Day" return to settle the account.

    They are all in the dark about Rhoubhes power level so I am not worried about them setting out anytime soon, should I someday judge they are at least close to being able to handle the manslayer at whatever power level I settle on I will up the amount of interference he sends their way and move them towards attempting what they would never have considered before.
    Last edited by Dcolby; 06-14-2007 at 06:36 PM.
    Good Morning Peasant!!

  9. #29
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcolby View Post
    Oh by no means are they inexperianced players. They are not seeking a confrontation with Rhoubhe at 4th-6th level at all. I just recognise that at least one of them, if not all will wish to "one Day" return to settle the account.

    They are all in the dark about Rhoubhes power level so I am not worried about them setting out anytime soon, should I someday judge they are at least close to being able to handle the manslayer at whatever power level I settle on I will up the amount of interference he sends their way and move them towards attempting what they would never have considered before.

    And that is how it should be.

    I think that is all anyone was saying was that he is a pretty major opponent and there shouldn't be a reasonable way to take him out at low to mid levels. Which actually did correspond to the 2nd ed numbers too.
    Duane Eggert

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