Religious issues...

[prince_dios]

Thurienne Donall(sp?), ruler of Talinie, is described in Ruins of the Empire as being willing to crush non-Haelinite temples.

I'm curious how this sort of religious bigotry would fly in the BR setting. I mean, the gods themselves seem to get along(with the exception of with the Vos clique of Belinik and Kriesha) and their roles don't overlap all that much.

[Jaleela]

Birthright isn't the 21st century, it is a quasi-late-medieval setting, and to boot, there are TONS of places in the 21st century where that sort of religious "bigotry" (intolerance of other religions is a better description) exists all the time - ever hear of religious laws in Islamic countries? Are you aware that Scientology is outlawed in modern Germany?

My read of Birthright is it is the last thing from a setting with a touchy-feely modern Western Values System.

[kgauck]

My read of Birthright is it is the last thing from a setting with a touchy-feely modern Western Values System.

I find Birthright full of the touchy-feely, and I take a bat to it all over the place. Its full of egalirarianism and suspicion of nobility, in a game where you play nobles. Its enviromentalism is all over the place, Talinie especially. There are some traditional value systems that get at the same end but don't sound like political fasions of the 1990's.

[Dcolby]

I find Birthright full of the touchy-feely, and I take a bat to it all over the place. Its full of egalirarianism and suspicion of nobility, in a game where you play nobles. Its enviromentalism is all over the place, Talinie especially. There are some traditional value systems that get at the same end but don't sound like political fasions of the 1990's.

LOL My players will drive the touchy feely out of a setting so quick your head spins..

[Jaleela]

I thought I should add that not all the gods in a pantheon, of the same alignment, will necessarily get along all the time. A great example of this is to look at ancient Greek mythology, and the Trojan war. Zeus and Hera were maried, but Greek mythology basically gives us this being a difficult marriage at best.

I also would third the point so ably put out of real world rivalries between people believing in the same diety, and also, the strong belief in both the miraculous, the power of relics, and 'natural magic', as well as forbidden magic in the Middle Ages - Richard Kieckhefer wrote two excellent scholarly books on the subject - "Magic in the MIddle Ages", and "Forbidden rites", the latter beibg a 15th century German work on Necromancy (not in the D&D sense, but summoning spirits, demons, and the like, and compelling them to do your will).

People used to look in the porch of a church to see an image of St. Christopher before setting out on any journey (interrupting the mass, and annoying the priest who then turned around and wrote sermons damning the practise, which is why we know about the practise), as they believed seeing an image of St. Christopher would infalibly protect them on their journey - as sympathetic magic, rather than as a proper part of Medieval Catholicisim.

Definitely, people believed as absolutely in these things as we believe the earth revolves around the sun, or in germs and micro-organisims. I think that the religions of game worlds should have the same sort of authority in the game, and the same sort of absorbtion for NPC's attention as they did in our history, so as to give the campaigns depth. Besides, it is one more realistic source of conflict.

[prince_dios]

My read of Birthright is it is the last thing from a setting with a touchy-feely modern Western Values System.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I'm well aware of the benighted state of the Middle East, et cetera, et cetera.

In Anuirea, unlike the real world:
1) You can cast a spell to prove your God is real.
2) The Gods have mostly friendly relationships; some are even married. I don't see how any, say, Cleric of Haelyn could justify cracking down on the follower's of his deity's wife or son for any reason.

[kgauck]

I hardly see a friendly relationship between Haelyn and Sera. Without the obvious emnity between Haelyn and Belenik, or Erik and Kriesha, I think the relationship with the most rivalry is Sera and Haelyn.

[ryancaveney]

I think the relationship with the most rivalry is Sera and Haelyn.

Not Erik and Sera?


Ryan

[Sorontar]

Erik's biggest issue is wanton destruction and lack of regrowth so Belinik and Kriesha are the bad ones. Erik does have issues with Sera about greed making people get more than the community needs from the world, but I suspect that the rivalries really come down to the individual churches. After all the Emerald Spiral and the Oaken Grove have different views on urbanisation and merchanting. Also, individual clerics have likes and dislikes about the other religions/Gods. For instance, my Druid of Erik dislikes the use of necromancy by a Priest of Sera, especially "animate dead". I don't know that this is an issue that the churches or gods would really concern themselves about since it is not one of main fields of Sera.

Sorontar.

[ryancaveney]

In Anuirea, unlike the real world: You can cast a spell to prove your God is real.

We have this argument a lot, it seems; most recently just three weeks ago at http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3796.

My summary of that discussion is no, you can't prove anything by casting spells except that you can cast spells, because you can be an atheist and still cast spells -- in fact, the best wizards on Cerilia are all elves, none of whom believe in gods.


Ryan