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Thread: Bloodtheft

  1. #1
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    I have read the rules for Birthright 3E ver 3.08 and tried to impliment them in my campaign. The way I read the rules is as follows:

    if you kill a blooded character with say 10 Bloodscore then 10*8=80 RP are unleashed on the blooded characters within 80ft (radius?). each blooded character is affected by their share of the RP to a maximum of twice their blood score. eg a character with bloodscore 20 could take 40 RP. This is then transferred into bloodscore points by dividing by 8 ie 5 points in this case. So he would move to 25 bloodscore.

    This seems to mean that anyone who singlehandedly commmits bloodtheft of someone with 25% of their own bloodscore would get maximum benifit and that the benifit would be an increase in bloodscore of 25%.

    This would mean that high bloodscore characters would be out to kill low level blooded chracters, whereas the low level characters could only benifit 25% of their small total if they were to kill a high blooded chracter.

    My problem with this is that a guy with bloodscore 20 kills 4 other bloodscore ten guys (one at a time) and increases from 20 to 25 to 31 to 38 to 47. While a bloodscore 4 guy would go from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8.

    I thought that the idea was to go out and kill strong blooded characters to improve not kill off weak ones.

    Comments?

    Gav
    Gav

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    Ok, I think you misunderstood somewhere. I'll try and explain it a bit better.

    Let's use this example: A group of scions slay another. There are six scions to divide the victim's bloodline. The victim had a bloodline of 12, releasing 96 RP.

    96/6 = 16.

    The first scion of the group that did the dirty deed has a score of 12 for his bloodline. Since 16 is greater than 12, he gains 16 RP.

    Another scion in the same group has a score of 18. Since 16 is less than 18, he gains nothing.

    If one scion had a very low score of 6, he'd absorb 12 RP, and the remaining 4 RP would be distributed among the remaining five scions.

    Note: No increase in bloodline took place. In order for a character's bloodline to increase, he'd need to spend RP, specifically, four times his bloodline. Thus, someone with a 12 bloodline needs to spend 48 RP to get to 13. To go from a 6 bloodline to a 7, you need to spend 24 RP. And to go from 18 to 19, you need to spend 72 RP.

    The RP gained through usurpation thus will usually only catapult you part of the way to improving your bloodline.

    I'm not quite sure where you got the "divide by 5, put back into bloodline from" - I can't find any such reference.

    If a scion with a bloodline of 20 were to slay four scions with a bloodline of 10, he'd gain 40 RP the first time, then 40 RP the second time - now he'd have 80 RP, and the option to spend these to improve his bloodline to 21. After slaying two more, he'd have 84 RP, and the option to improve his bloodline yet again to 22.

    The system in 3.08 is much better suited to the group dynamics of D&D - rather than let the fighters get all the bloodline improvements, it sort of splits them up.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

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    Thanks for your post.

    I got the divide by 8 (not 5) from the rules used for commoners when they transfer RP to Bloodscore. Where did you get the rule that it costs four times your bloodscore in RP to increase bloodscore by 1. I thought that it cost one more than your Bloodscore in RP to increase bloodscore by one.

    What happens to the excess RP as I thought that only regent scions can use RP for domain actions. Do scions and regents then store it up to use later or is it wasted?

    Do the other scions in your example get multiple bites at the cherry then when there is excess RP remaining (if they haven't taken their maximum increase?

    Gav
    Gav

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    What is the justification behind changing the bloodtheft system? Was there a problem with it? I thought the regency from the dead regent was supposed to go to his heir. So what happens when a scion who has no regency is slain by a commoner?

    I still prefer the through the heart, get the benefits method of bloodtheft. Merely killing someone and then getting blasted by regency doesn't sound like the chance discovery that bloodtheft was supposedly uncoverd by.
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    I was under the impression that when bloodtheft occurred it was only the bloodscore points that escaped the body and may be taken up by blooded characters (as RP as it turns out). Does that mean that a murdered Regent with 25 RP and a bloodscore of 30 releases 30*8+25=245 RP to be soaked up by scions with regent characters keeping the RP they collect and choosing to spend these RP on domain actions or 4 times their bloodscore to increase their bloodscore by 1.

    I thought that the bloodscore increase occurred whether they liked it or not.

    Also what happens to the excess RP left over that non-regent scions absorb. Is it wasted?
    Gav

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    What is the justification behind changing the bloodtheft system? Was there a problem with it? I thought the regency from the dead regent was supposed to go to his heir. So what happens when a scion who has no regency is slain by a commoner?

    There are several different justifications:
    1) The bloodline system is different. This also requires a different system for bloodtheft. It would be a tad unbalancing to allow characters to advance in a basically 3d6-based system in the same way they advanced in a basically d100-oriented system.
    2) There is a group dynamic to D&D - the old system pretty much screwed everyone but fighters when it came to bloodtheft. This system shares the goods. A wizard might have as much to do with the actual killing of an awnshegh as a fighter; however, he'd not reap as much of a reward due to the fact that the fighter would generally be the one that got to do the final blow through the heart routine.
    3) The final blow through the heart routine was pretty unclear.
    4) Some of the products mention different processes for bloodtheft - read the Vampire's description, for an example. It's also pretty routine that commoners become blooded through killing an awnshegh. The pierce through the heart rule does not handle that well.
    5) When push comes to shove, a rule mechanic really is just one way of viewing a story-based twist. If you converted BR to, say, Alternity, you'd also need to adapt a different bloodline and bloodtheft mechanic. It'd probably end up similar to the one in Travis' conversion.
    6) Note that this system for bloodlines is based off an ability score rationale. How often do player characters in your campaigns increase theirs?
    7) The reason for making it an ability score is to keep as much as possible of the flavor of the 2e BR system, while preserving the balance issues in 3e. Scions do not have *bad* ability scores - it's simply that the few exceptional commoners that go on adventures with them are just that - exceptional. Note that I assume a 4d6, roll seven times mechanic here.

    I was under the impression that when bloodtheft occurred it was only the bloodscore points that escaped the body and may be taken up by blooded characters ...

    No. Look again; the system only mentions a release of RP based upon the scion's bloodline score, not any RP he may have had. So a scion with a 30 bloodline (that's pretty high, btw) would unleash 30x8=240 RP, and that would be divided among any applicable scions. Excess RP is lost. RP can be spent in any way you please - think of RP as prestige as much as mystical power; I'm sure you'd get a lot of increased prestige if you managed to slay the Gorgon. ;)

    Blood score increase happens whether they like it or not - if they accumulate a lot of RP. Check the section above the usurpation section for more details.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

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    The biggest justification in changing the system is this. I'm the Gorgon. I'm an evil bastard and I want us much power as I can get. If I kill a blooded scion with a strength of 1 even though my strength is 50+, I still get 1 point. What's to stop me from continously going around and bloodthefting every scion, including children, that I can find?

    In addition, the system was changed to fit the 3rd Ed theme. Which is why a lot of minor things changed such as even the bloodline strength score.

    Look under changing bloodline strength for info in RP and increasing the bloodline. It's either right before the blood abilities or right after. I'm to lazy to look right now.

    Regency points transferring make a lot more sense then actual bloodline strength. In essence, regency points can make up strength but the vice versa cannot be true. Mind you, you are not recieving, directly, any bloodline strength by the violent death of a scion. You are also not recieving their regency points they had stored. The scions divine strength is exploding in the form of regency.

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    Excellent point. There was always a lack of believability in the old system - "why doesn't the Gorgon have a bloodline strength of about, oh, 1500 or so?"
    Jan E. Juvstad.

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    Yep, Sorry, missed the four times your Birthright score.

    Thanks for the clarification about RP stored by the victim and RP generated by Bloodscore exploding.

    One more dumb question.

    What can non-regent scions do with RP (or is this just street cred) other than increase Bloodscore improvements. Can he use domain actions - assuming he has the RP and the gold even though he's not a regent?
    Gav

  10. #10
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    Well, in general, non-regent scions can just use the RPs to increase their bloodline. However, as the rules are written, even non-regents can take certain Domain Actions - Create Holding, for instance. I suppose you could use the RPs in those cases.

    I hope to clarify this issue further later on.
    Jan E. Juvstad.

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