Cry Havoc for B-right

[Sir Tiamat]

I found Cry Havoc is a good source for playing unit combat, but sadly is not compatible with B-right because CH units are built from the level of the individual (as per phb), whereas B-right units have been pre-made at the unit level…

The two different economic systems result in serious balance issues when simply trying to convert a B-right unit into a CH unit.

Last year I have begun work on building birthright units from the individual level, as to become compatible with Cry Havoc. As a result the costs of the units have somewhat changed, and some units (notably knights) have become considerably smaller.

The first results are promising but it will still need more play-testing. Consequently I was wondering whether others have experience with Cry Havoc and their solutions. I am also willing to share my findings to those interested, for feedback

[irdeggman]

Someone did an attempt at Anuirean units in the download section.

http://www.birthright.net/forums/dow...?do=file&id=25

[Panics]

For me, Cry Havoc is a must if you want to play mass battles (10 or more units) !

For the price of the unit, I took information in Stronghold Builder (WotC). A knight is around 12 gp (per knight/per level/per month).

I can't reference with BR since I never found the battle system interesting.

[kgauck]

What do you make of Heroes of Battle?

[Panics]

"Heroes of battle " is a miniature handbook. Try run an army of 200 men vs 200 men with it. Its design to play "a la" Call of Duty. ie a small group doing small missions.

Cry Havoc is for the real Mass Combat, like seen in all those wonderful movies (LotR, Braveheart, etc.).

I've looked at the Anuire, and it's stated that they have 3,000 men. Assuming they are all Warrior 1st, they would cost 27 GB.

3,000 men x 6 gp (per month) = 18,000 gp x 3 month = 54,000 gp / 2,000 gp = 27 GB.

Don't know if Anuire could support this army. Don't have the stats ;o) Can they ?

[kgauck]

The Avanil page shows a per turn income is 102 GB per turn.

It also lists a population of 167,000, which the DMG suggests 5% should be 1st level warriors. This is 8350, which means you can easily assemble 3000 men under arms from a population of this size. Based on the medieval examples of 2% of a population being a practical maximum, 3340 men under arms for any sustained period of time also makes sense.

Avanil seems to be much closer to its population maximum than it is to its fiscal maximum (which suggests there is no pressure to modernize the state) and so probabaly invests in castles to maximize the fighting effectiveness of the men it does have.

[irdeggman]

Fields of Blood by Eden is also a very good mass combat system.

The "unit" size of Cry Havoc is smaller, around 20 and much more detailed while that of Fields of Blood is around 100 and much less detailed.

Fields of Blood also has a domain level gaming system which is pretty good too.

[irdeggman]

What do you make of Heroes of Battle?

Massively disappointing. It is designed for an individual PC on the battlefield and not for unit size combat. It does have some pretty good information on siege engines though.

[kgauck]

I really like the flowcharts, the design of an army from the single character up, the military characters, and actually the whole book, but as has been noted, it is for standard D&D in a war scenario, rather than serving our purposes of mass armies and realms at war.

I had passed on Cry Havoc because I picked up Heroes of Battle, but I'll have to go back and give it a serious look.

[Panics]

I must admit that "heroes of Battle" is very good to prepare for war. I've used it for my last mass combat. With combat made via "Cry Havoc". It took me around 4 hours to prepare a one night battle. A simple strike of 300 men vs 1000 men ! The PC won... a 3 PCs of 12th-level are quite devastating on the fields !

For Kingdom rules you also have "Empire". But I disliked because you need to manage resources and too much other information. That's why I turned myself to BR. You manage a realm in general, not in details.