Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46
  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    148
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Arjen thank you for the dance it seems the "boys" are arguing again....Allessandra walks over to Chioran and Eldred.

    Chioran you know full well I cannot disrespect the Bishop. He is semi retired by the way. I don't expect you to fully understand how the church hierarchy works. I do expect you to know that a Bishop is above an Abbey station. She turns to Eldred, Eldred I don't know who you think has been giving you mass every Sunday but it isn't the Bishop. He and his wife are out on diplomatic relations with neighboring countries. The Bishop does not vote on council any longer and that makes things a bit different than before. To the both of them, Just remember that I also have ties to Haelyn's people and specific tasks and goals at hand. Now Eldred about that dance....
    Abbess Allessandra
    from the United Provinces of Haelyn
    "On your knees...to pray!"

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    148
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Arlen not Arjen, sorry
    Abbess Allessandra
    from the United Provinces of Haelyn
    "On your knees...to pray!"

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Green Knight
    More specifically, it does not provide answers to the basic questions raised by many religions: What are we, why are we, what are gods, how do we relate to the gods etc.
    Completely independent (yet completely intertwined) is the issue of origin. Before you can define the purpose of man you must define his origin. If it is evolution then man's existence is purposeless because there is no "divine" or true meaning to existence. If mankind came from a blob of chemicals that formed a living cell and transformed into its current state (BUWAHHHAA!!! YEAH RIGHT!!!) then morality is a mute point. It can defined independent of a common standard is determined solely on the whims of a person's thought. Thus, if someone defines his or her moral code to allow or even promote the killing of his fellow man there is no wrong in this, because there is no purpose to the existence of man. Man simply came into being and thus has no hope of an eternal destination. Thus they are reduced to fulfilling the lusts of their own flesh. Meaning mankind should engage in all the drunken parties, sexual orgies, or any other activity that provides enjoyment. Because when your time comes your life is over. Might as well make the most of it. Based on evolution human life becomes valueless. We are of no more value than a beast of burden. Without a purpose for existence we are no better than cows. For they have the same origin of a single cell as we do… If human life is valueless than abortion, murder, rape, etc. are of little consequence because human life has no value and can be used and abused in any manner desired.

    IF however, you acknowledge that mankind has a Creator then you must answer questions of the following nature:
    -Who, what, where is the Creator?
    -Why did the Creator form me and what am I supposed to do with my existence?
    -Does my Creator truly care about me?
    -Is my Creator in authority over me?
    -What is the penalty of disobedience?

    No offense to some of you, but religion is not a mindless decision (though some religions require you to be mindless :P). It is actually quite the opposite. The existence of a creative force (generally God or gods of some sort) is the only logical answer to the existence of mankind. To believe in evolution is foolish. If you didn’t evolve the only logical alternative is creation. Creation leads to a creator. A creator leads religion. The downward spiral then falls to which “religion” is correct.

    Okay, I think I’ve bantered enough for this post… :)
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  4. #24
    Senior Member blitzmacher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    el paso
    Posts
    250
    Downloads
    24
    Uploads
    0
    But wasn't god an Ape?
    Cattle die and kinsmen die,
    thyself too soon must die,
    but one thing never, I ween, will die, --
    fair fame of one who has earned.
    HAVAMAL

  5. #25
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,016
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Last time I checked he was an old man with a beard. Or that might just have been a picture in a children's book. It's so hard telling fact from fiction sometimes.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Your House
    Posts
    201
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Its good to see fellow Christians defend their beliefs. However, Creationism is kind of vague and assumed. Meanwhile, Evolution is really vague and assumed. However, something similar to standard evolution has evidence of occuring. This leads to the question "Why isn't it happening now?" This is a very valid question. I've often heard it rebuffed by just saying that it takes a long time to evolve. However, given that a long time started a long time ago and evolution still doesn't seem to be in effect, this doesn't lend credence to that reply. There are also many holes in the evolutionary ladder. In addition, the mathematics neccesary to produce enough random chemicals that would create a living organism nears impossibility (far beyond what is considered the threshold of mathematical impossibility, as far a probability is concerned).

    Strict creationism, on the other hand, is blind. There is an obvious progression of life-forms. These cannot be ignored. Also, interpreting biblical text is very difficult. The language was far different some 6-8 thousand years ago, and mis-translation is a very real possibility. Day could have originally meant many thousands or millions of years.

    A third idea is one that actually has science behind it, particularly recently. The concept of intelligent design (scientists specifically ignore the nature of the designer for this concept) is a growing field. It is very possible that God controlled a version of evolution. This could possibly explain many of the gaps in evolution, as well as account for the mathematics of the theory (a controlled enviornment can remove most of the randomness). There are actually a few different theories and some newly developing ones that look into this concept, most notably the work of Stephen Wolfram. I personally am very interested in the math of the whole thing, and Wolfram (designer/owner of Mathematica and the company that created it) has a very interesting position on it.

    However, I will stop preaching now, don't want to start an actual argument or anything.
    Explain how this is a signature, its not my handwriting.

    The hardest part was teaching the bunnies to hug. -Duke Phillips

  7. #27
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,016
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Orginally posted by Lawgiver

    To believe in evolution is foolish. If you didn’t evolve the only logical alternative is creation. Creation leads to a creator. A creator leads religion.
    Not trying to be rude, but there are a couple of gaping holes in you logic. Think it has something to do with the connection between the first two centences. I don't think you're applying logic here: even if "To believe in evolution is foolish" were true, it does not logically follow that there is only one other alternative, nor that creation is that alternative.

    Besides, the truthfullness of "To believe in evolution is foolish" is debatable in itself. You might just as easily turn the argument around and arrive at: the only logical alternative is evolution...
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Well said G.K. I was thinking the same thing myself. I think that there is enough proof to make a strong case for evolution. If the creation of the universe stems from the big bang theory then it is easy to make the remainder of the case for evolution. However, scientifically explaining the source of the big bang is difficult. Sure we can say that there n # of anti-matter molecules and n+1 or (2n) # of matter molecules and the collision between the 2 caused the big bang. The big questipon is where did the molecules come from. THere is no explanation for this.

    I think this makes a good case for Aristotle's "Prime Mover" theory.
    This is an adventure dammit! I expect to be rewarded for acts of homicide!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Orginally posted by Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel
    Its good to see fellow Christians defend their beliefs.
    [/I]
    Let me start by saying, that I never mentioned God or Christianity in my defense. Creationism does equivocate Christianity. However, since Garagamel initiated the discussion of Biblical concepts I have been forced (:P) to step up to the plate.
    Orginally posted by Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel
    Strict creationism, on the other hand, is blind. There is an obvious progression of life-forms. These cannot be ignored.
    [/I]
    Few Creationists will argue the point that evolution occurs. In fact they will acknowledge that it occurs. However, it is only micro-evolution (changes within a species) not macro-evolution (a change from one species to another). For instance, the many forms of dogs all ''evolved'' from previous dogs, but cats and dogs do not share common ancestry.
    Orginally posted by Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel
    Also, interpreting biblical text is very difficult. The language was far different some 6-8 thousand years ago, and mis-translation is a very real possibility.
    [/I]
    No offense, but this a pathetically weak argument. Even non-Christian scholars and ancient linguists can affirm the translations.

    Day-Age Theory - This is a theory that attempts to equate the Christian six-day creation of the world doctrine with geological ''ages'' or ''millions of years''.
    -1. Nearly every time it refers to a ''day'' in the story of creation it refers to a corresponding night.
    ( Genesis 1:5 --God called the light ''day,'' and the darkness he called ''night.'' And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.).
    Are the nights also geological ages?

    -2. Exodus 20:11 ''For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.''
    This verse restates the idea God created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh. Now back up 3 verses…
    Exodus 20:8-10 ''Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work…''
    IF the days are geological ages during creation how can man be told to work for six geological ages and rest during the seventh age?

    -3. Adam was created on the sixth day. This means that he lived through the seventh day.
    Genesis 5:5 ''Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. ''
    If Adam lived through the seventh geological age why is he only 930 years old? Did the measurement of time suddenly alter? Certainly not. The original seventh day was a literal day.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Orginally posted by Green Knight
    Not trying to be rude, but there are a couple of gaping holes in you logic. Think it has something to do with the connection between the first two centences. I don't think you're applying logic here: even if "To believe in evolution is foolish" were true, it does not logically follow that there is only one other alternative, nor that creation is that alternative.

    Besides, the truthfullness of "To believe in evolution is foolish" is debatable in itself. You might just as easily turn the argument around and arrive at: the only logical alternative is evolution...
    I beleive you are misunderstanding me. I am not stating that the Christian doctorine of creation is the only alternative.
    I'm stating that if something didn't "evolve" or "change" into its current state, it must have existed in its previous form. Do you have another logical alternative to creation of some sort or evolution? if you do I would love to hear it.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.