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Thread: The Gorgon

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    The Gorgon

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    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    He's just a weeeeeee bit over powered with the current stats don't you think? He's more powerful than several demi-gods/avatars. I don't mean to be snarky, but was the original boxed set or "Blood Enemies: Abominations" book referenced during the conversion?
    Last edited by Lawgiver; 03-19-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawgiver View Post
    He's just a weeeeeee bit over powered with the current stats don't you think? He's more powerful than several demi-gods/avatars. I don't mean to be snarky, but was the original boxed set or "Blood Enemies: Abominations" book referenced during the conversion?
    The problem is, in my view, the conversion of multiclassed characters from 2e to 3e. The gorgon as a L20 fighter, L16 mage, L? monster gets very, very, nasty in 3e - and didn't start off as particularly fluffy...

    That said the Gorgon is supposed to be more than an avatar - he is only a relatively short step behind the gods themselves, and Cerilia is his home plane. That said you'd need to have a fairly seriously epic campaign to have PC's who could even survive 3 rounds against him much less the dozens of rounds necessary to chew through his hitpoints and spells and personally I'd use him more as a McGuffin than as an actual NPC.

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    Yummmm, McGuffins and jam.

  5. #5
    well let me put it this way. i stopped playing d and d for a while and came back into the fold during third. there arent many 2nd edition games i play in except for one guy i know where i like his 2nd edition games. Well he was playing in this birthright campaign thingy and i was like ok ill give it a try. So far we have killed the Boar, the Hydra, and the Rage of Seas. we r all about 8th lvl except me im a dual class retired paladin 5 and 8 lvls of wizard with a tourban. Now that we are all powerful and stuff and working for the sultan of Binsada and going to kill the basilisk and the sphinx i hope i asked my DM so hey man when we gonna be powerful enough to fight this lich mage guy and this gorgon guy i keep hearing people in game and out of game qauke about. He laughed this laugh like the time in Greyhawk when we woke up the Tarrasque! he said we had a better chance in our last game of beating up the cirlce of eight.... so this is a note to me this former seeker now mage of avani is going nowhere near the Gorgon crown or this crazy elf he keeps hearing about that u can shoot arrows the size of a ogre at him and they bounce of i mean im a man so anyone named manslayer is right out!




    Side note just in case anyone cares im making a clerics prayer book that will be written from the perspective of my paladin of avani that treks around with a Vos wizard that worship rornil, a Vos cleric named eric that worships Sera, and last but not least our Amim (leader) is a Bretch u know fluffy pirate shirts and what not that all worships sera, so ill probly be posting these 3 books first then start working the other gods and mostly just throw them evil god hyms right out. So Hail Sera may your trades be fruitful and your luck pure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Yummmm, McGuffins and jam.
    ROFL! McGuffins with red herrings is my personal favorite
    -Harald

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  7. #7
    Yeah I put the Gorgan down as untouchable. They might have gone a little crazy with his abilities in 3.0 but still, in the end, he should be ultra-powerful and near demi-god being.

    Then there is the next tier of bad guys that are extremely tough but might be beatable by a very powerful party. That would include The Serpent, The Magian, Manslayer. But we should be talking about a level 20 CL or close to it.

    These characters are built in enemies that the players are going to be forced to deal with for a very long time. As a campaign goes on for years there can be some level of consistancy.

    -Brian

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    There ought to be ways to weaken the Gorgon before confrontation, or in minor confrontation. I'm a big fan of setting up villains that are just too powerful to confront, but that with care and strategy you can bring down. Methods include stealing or destroying magic items that are part of his power; eliminating allies; placing or using artifacts and items against him which would weaken him (sort of like how undead are weakened in consecrated areas), weakening his realm or holdings/establishing ones against him, inflicting some sort of deific wounds that are slow for him to heal in minor confrontations, find some way to reduce his bloodline or general power, etc.

    It should be possible, with focused effort, for a fair-sized group of regents to grow in power sufficiently (boosting their own power in various ways), direct Anuire in conflict against the Gorgon, and weaken him significantly so that future generations can destroy him eventually.

    All that said, there are metagame abuses that could bring the Gorgon down pretty quickly, even given his 3e stats. I've talked about them in another thread, but Forcecage, Acid Arrow, Acid Fog, and the Orb spells could do the trick without terribly much difficulty--so long as you can get the Hand of Azrai away from him and prevent teleportation (Shadow Block).

  9. #9
    Anything can be accomplished with meta-gaming. Lets not forget that a simple ring of acid resistance could reduce the effectivness of that plan of attack pretty quickly.

    He still has multiple ways to get himself out of a forcecage. He can teleport. If they have him locked from teleports he has limited wish. If that didn't work he could cast forcecage on himself and make it the kind with no bars and sit and wait out the Dimentional block which only lasts minutes.

    I have always felt acid spells are a bit silly, over-powered, and gamebreaking in some cases. I believe anti-magic shell would still stop those any how. If it didn't, then he would have cover from the forcecage bars being many of them might miss because he would also have blur up an running. Don't forget he can also still cast spell out at those pesky wizards.

    The situation you have come up with simply could never happen in Cerila. You are asking to have a large force of wizards come across the Gorgan, surprise him, and have him being alone.

    -Brian

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    Beau, since you decided to engage in my theoretical attack method, I'll defend it further.

    Shadow Block lasts for months and prevents all dimensional travel. Limited Wish will not get through it.

    Antimagic Sphere has too short a duration to be an effective defense.

    An area or targeted dispel magic will take care of a ring of acid resistance, and resistance spells are too short duration as well. Cover wouldn't be much of an issue, as fogs and area effect spells overcome it easily.

    Magicians can manage Acid Arrow and Lesser Orb spells. By any theory of elves that assumes that they are more magically-capable and that magic is more common among them, they should be able to manage plenty of 1st-3rd level spellcasters, and a few high enough level ones. Ranged touch attacks are pretty easy to make, even through cover, and especially for high dexterity elves. The ranges on those spells are pretty long. The Gorgon can't cast enough spells in return to effectively counter, and his defensive spells don't last long enough to outlast his foes.

    The no-saving-throw, no-spell-resistance area effect or touch attack conjuration spells (not just acid) can overcome any defenses the Gorgon has. They don't really need to surprise him, just engage him in combat.

    I have posited this theory before as a reason that the Gorgon does not rampage for long at the head of his armies, and tends to leave the elves alone.

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