Awnsheghlien easely to wipe ?

[Bialaska]

In my honest opinion I think there are a few things that one should note before saying that Rhuobe and the Spider would easily be taken out.

In personal power the two are immensely powerful, far surpassing the other regents and even 99,9999999% of all adventurers, surpassed only by only a few other Awnsheglien. Assassinating them would be impossible, because there are no assassins that are capable of performing such a feat. That leaves only the option of invasion. An invasion is a nice thing, surely, but both Rhuobhe and Spiderfell are locations that are hard to maneuver in for most armies. And even if you slay all the defending units, you most likely won't even have scratched the Awnies. And after this the Awnsheglien you have attacked most likely get pretty annoyed, travels to your capital, burns down your castle, slays your family, burns your magical library, uses some special power that allows him to divest you of your bloodline, then stabs out your eyes and removes your tongue, puts you in a beggars outfit and throws you in a ditch somewhere in Imperial City for you to live the rest of your miserable life knowing that if you had listened to your advisors and figured out why both Spiderfell and Rhuobhe has been located where it has since the founding of the Empire without having been conquered before. For future generations your nickname will be the Imbecile and rulers for the next many generations will look at your example and do everything they can to avoid such situations themselves...

[irdeggman]

I think that people are looking at this from two different standpoints.

1. Adventuring level. That is for PCs that are primarily adventurers and the domain/political issue is in the background.

2. From a domain ruling level. that is for PCs who are primarily regents and adventure much less.

For 1 - it becomes an issue of "pure personal power" that is "my 18th level PC should be able to wipe the floor man-o on man-o with pretty much any "listed" Awnie"

For 2 - it becomes an issue of "my PC can send in more armies than that Awnie can possibly muster".

The problem with either of these is that the rules were written for a mix of the two.

For either one it is important to recognize (as has been pointed out many times) the NPCs written in the books were for "guidance" and their stats were actually for DMs to use (not for players). In general it is not considered "proper" for players to use the MM as a sourcebook. There are exceptions of course, druids shapeshifting, animal companions, and now "using other races for PCs" - but in general that information (and the DMG) has been consideredunder the DM's perview.

Combining that with the "fog of war" issue, players should not know "everything" about the NPCs. I have always told my players that what is listed may or may not be true and that they should not expect any major NPC to be what is written, everyone changes over time.

Forgetting the "political" aspect of Birthright is IMO just way wrong. I mean the setting was based on "politcs" and that is the underlying current of pretty much everything ever written for the setting. It was one of the major differences between BR and any other D&D setting. To drop that is to drop the setting itself, IMO. The Anuire region sourcebook was titled "Ruins of Empire" for a reason, it set the tone for the setting as much as did the first novel "The Iron Throne".

Having said that - it doesn't mean that people can't run the game as primarily adventurers and have the politcs "in the background". But those politcs should never be forgotten. They determine what is going on, were the PCs "need to go", what opponents are present to overcome, etc.

IMO the defeating the Spider relies tremendously on the "political" aspect of the setting. How much would each of the surrounding realms be investing in defeating the Spider? How much would this "investment" cost them with regards to defending their "other" borders? How much could Medoere afford to invest with Endier and Diemed having so much "interest" in the land? Just look at the lands surrounding the lands surrounding the Spiderfell and an idea of the political ramifications of mounting a front on the Spider can readily be envisioned.

Now attempting to take on a major regent on a personal level is forgetting all the things that made that person a regent in the first place. Armies, special defenses, etc. Many of the possible "special defenses" and "obstacles" facing PCs attempting to personnaly reach the Spider have been presented already.

IMO BR should not be merely a "numbers" game where stats determine everything. That is too much like a computer game and does not truely capture the "feel" and "essence" of the setting. But that is just my opinion.