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  1. #31
    Kalien
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalor
    There is always the option of burning the Spiderfell to the ground and wait for the Spider to come into a well laid trap...that is what I would do.
    I've always thought that if it was as simple as setting the Spiderfell on fire, it would have been tried before. The Deretha have been warring with Tal Qazar for about 2,000 years and I'm sure that in all that time someone would have tried a major burn-off.

    There are a few factors counting against the flammability of the Spiderfell, I think. You have the massive dark cloud that sits about the Spiderfell, ready to drop large amounts of rain on the forest. Also, I've always pictured the forest as being dense, very damp, with lots of moist rotting foliage on the ground - that is, not terrible vulnerable to fire.

    But I certainly agree that the best way to defeat the Spider is to trap or otherwise incapacitate him rather than trying to kill him. This method also has the added benefit of no-one killing him, becoming infected with the blood of Azrai, and turning into another awnsheghlien.

  2. #32
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    The other way is play on the Spider's insecurities and draw him out into a location that is more favourable to you. For our campaign, DM Doyle has told us the Spider has already been killed by a third party. The PCs know little about it but my druid knows that he was killed just outside of the Spiderfell in a one-on-one duel with someone who seems to have challenged him. The same method could have been tried by Michael Roele or any other bigwig.

    As to the methods of keeping him dead.... I don't know if they apply to our campaign (Doyle has a habit of manipulating D&D reality for his own nefarious DM purposes), but the PCs believe that they have seen the Spider's head being stuffed and preserved for public display.

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  3. #33
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:17 PM 5/6/2007, Anthony Edward wrote:

    >There is always the option of burning the Spiderfell to the ground
    >and wait for the Spider to come into a well laid trap...that is what
    >I would do.

    Actually, I think this is the only way one should be able to deal
    with the Spider/Spiderfell. The rules and materials we have don`t
    really reflect this, but IMO the Spider`s "home field" advantage
    within his domain should be so overwhelming as to prevent anything
    but the most massive invasion and attack by high level characters.

    Gary

  4. #34
    Senior Member ShadowMoon's Avatar
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    Yup, I agree that only plausable option would be to somehow draw the Spider out of that dreadful forrest. You really have to have an iconic leader to force men into Spider's domain. Poor visibility, heavy dump air, impassable terrain, hidden pitfalls, and countless spiders of all kind. So troops would be highly demoralized, disorganised, and dancing on the brink of a panic.

    I go too, with the idea that since the forrest is so humid, it is hard to set it afire. Caine would also have something to say about turning Spiderfell into the ash waste.

    Spider is just not worth the trouble. Prolly through history some champions managed to defeat him, but since the Spider has Invulnerability (Great), blood ability, he would rise again. All in all, to much resources and effort for something so uncertain.

    Best thing You can do is to reinforce borders around Spiderfell to counter his raiding parties...


    Also in my campaign Spider has few Druid levels (ofcourse not as a servant of Erik), and shares Mebhaighl power of the Spiderfell with Cain (in my campaign Druids use Sources like Wizards to cast Realm magic). So invading Spiderfell gets even harder, both by mundane means or by magic.
    Last edited by ShadowMoon; 05-07-2007 at 11:04 PM.
    "If the wizards and students who lived here centuries ago had practiced control - in their spellcasting and in their dealings with the politics of the empire - you would be studying in a tall tower made by the best dwarf stone masons, not in an old military barracks."
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  5. #35
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    The spiders should be of the swarm subtype (3.5 that is) which creates a whole bunch of issues when attempting to defeat them.

    SPIDER SWARM

    Diminutive Vermin (Swarm)
    Hit Dice: 2d8 (9 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 17 (+4 size, +3 Dex), touch 17, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/—
    Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus poison)
    Full Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus poison)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks: Distraction, poison
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., swarm traits, tremorsense 30 ft., vermin traits
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +0
    Abilities: Str 1, Dex 17, Con 10, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 2
    Skills: Climb +11, Listen +4, Spot +4
    Environment: Warm forests
    Organization: Solitary, tangle (2–4 swarms), or colony (7–12 swarms)
    Challenge Rating: 1
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement: None
    Level Adjustment:


    Combat
    A spider swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. A swarm deals 1d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.
    Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a spider swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 11 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 11, initial and secondary damage 1d3 Str. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Skills: A spider swarm has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Spot checks and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. It uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for Climb checks. It can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.

    [b]Swarm Subtype:
    A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures, whether they are flying or not. Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking. Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. The area occupied by a large swarm is completely shapeable, though the swarm usually remains in contiguous squares.

    Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or lower causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.

    A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

    Swarm Attack: Creatures with the swarm subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. Swarm attacks are not subject to a miss chance for concealment or cover. A swarm’s statistics block has “swarm” in the Attack and Full Attack entries, with no attack bonus given. The amount of damage a swarm deals is based on its Hit Dice, as shown below.



    Distraction (Ex): Any living creature vulnerable to a swarm’s damage that begins its turn with a swarm in its square is nauseated for 1 round; a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 swarm’s HD + swarm’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in a swarm’s description) negates the effect. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Concentration check.
    Swarms are subject to fire and splash based damage though.

    But the question to ask is how many swarms would be present?
    Duane Eggert

  6. #36
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 10:44 PM 5/6/2007, Kalien wrote:

    >>There is always the option of burning the Spiderfell to the ground
    >>and wait for the Spider to come into a well laid trap...that is
    >>what I would do.
    >
    >I`ve always thought that if it was as simple as setting the
    >Spiderfell on fire, it would have been tried before. The Deretha
    >have been warring with Tal Qazar for about 2,000 years and I`m sure
    >that in all that time someone would have tried a major burn-off.

    I`m reminded of a kind of uber-D&D geek I met once who developed the
    D&D 1e character class called... the anti-Druid. Yeah, that`s
    right. It was about as horrifyingly obnoxious as you might
    think. The guy actually went around saying, "Burn forest burn!" as a
    sort of mantra....

    >There are a few factors counting against the flammability of the
    >Spiderfell, I think. You have the massive dark cloud that sits
    >about the Spiderfell, ready to drop large amounts of rain on the
    >forest. Also, I`ve always pictured the forest as being dense, very
    >damp, with lots of moist rotting foliage on the ground - that is,
    >not terrible vulnerable to fire.

    I`m reminded of the Japanese attempt during WWII to set North America
    ablaze using giant, paper balloons with incendiary bombs strapped to
    them... sort of the military strategic equivalent of the anti-druid,
    or an international bombing campaign conceived by some demented,
    balloon shaping clown.

    >But I certainly agree that the best way to defeat the Spider is to
    >trap or otherwise incapacitate him rather than trying to kill
    >him. This method also has the added benefit of no-one killing him,
    >becoming infected with the blood of Azrai, and turning into another
    >awnsheghlien.

    Easier said than done....

    G

  7. #37
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    In regards to burning the Spiderfell, what is its relation to the "old forests"?

    It is not as clear as the Erbannien tie, but that could be a major factor in why no one has burned it down.
    Duane Eggert

  8. #38
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Another factor stopping people from burning down is the near certainty of a swarm of poisonous spiders fleeing the fire and seeking to make a new home in Ghoere, Endier, Diemed, Medoere, etc, etc. - Whoever does it will not be remembered as a hero...


    Plus the near permanent rain and clouds should make it way too soggy to burn - if someone really wants to spend their life figuring out how to burn it down fine - but the Spider doesn't seem interested in expansion so its easier to just deal with the odd raiding party.

  9. #39
    Anuire is a delicate balance much like Europe was. If Rhoube was vanquished it upsets the regional balance. The same with Spiderfell. Spiderfell protects Diemed, Medoere, and Endier from Ghoere. The number of kingdoms that need to work together to deal with the Spider and his kingdom is a hard enough task. Then, let's say they deal with him... Who gets the realm? Things like that make it a not very rewarding task.

    I also think nations like Endier want the Spider to remain. Gives the other kingdoms a bigger fish to fry.

  10. #40
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    At the risk of being harsh - the threat any NPC poses is entirely up to the GM.

    If they turn The Spider into a lame easy kill then they need to start thinking a bit more.

    No AWNSHEGHLEIN that has been around for 100's or 1000's of years is an easy kill. Lots of people have tried - and died. They have every option available to them that players do and usually a heck of a lot more resources and experience.

    Assassinate The Spider - the assassin you try to hire is likely to laugh in your face and tell you its impossible - you can't just walk into the spiderfell in your little Ninja uniform and slip a poison in his broth.

    If you have choosen a high level path then make sure you make sure that the threats players face are up to the challenge - Zero research and Zero information on their enemy and expecting to rock into "his domain" with a pack of 6-8 pcs and bowl him over should be akin to running down a dragons throat while insulting his mother and expecting him not to chew.

    Personally these additions are fun -

    The spider has bred half breed children - half Goblin/half spider (use drider template with nasty venom).

    The Spider can see and hear anything any spider can if he so desires. - which means that regents plotting against him can almost inevitably expect counter plots - "oh no the spider seems to know everything and be laying in wait...."

    Feel free to drop any spider type or subtype listed anywhere in D&D rules into the spiderfell with monstrous and other templates whenever you like.
    Look at some of the waterskimming and trapdoor spiders in nature - web "net" throwers and the like for inspiration.

    Spiders are cunning hunters and trappers and lay very patient plans - they do not allow enemies a second chance. BE MEAN if they want to mess with the best the they can expect to be HURT.

    Players should not expect the rulebook writeup to be correct - feel free to alter it - Some enemies may have very little information available on them - most will be hearsay and rumor.

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