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  1. #21
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    Never use prestige classes as measure of how balanced a base class is.
    OK, if you compare true base classes, they are nearly balanced. The problem: Nearly nobody HAS only the base class meanwhile, IF he has enough choice between PrCs...

    I do agree that until CM there was little to no support for the warlock class while wizards have been the focus of D&D since the very beginning.
    This is sadly also true for spells vs. invocations. A warlock has not THIS much choice, neither in a number of invocations known nor in the number of invocations presented in several books. The wizard/ Sorcerer has a complete book full of spells (SC)


    Wizards/sorcerers can use scrolls and wands at low levels to make up for reduced spell slots when compared to the warlock's edritch blast. Wizards get scribe scroll as a free 1st level feat and a class can use a wand with a spell on their class list at any time. So a 1st level wizard could use a wand of fireball if he acquired one with no penalty.
    OK, yes, they can, but I never saw a wizard (1st level), who actually wielded a wand of fireballs (much too expensive, even if you only compare the equipment, a character of this level should have). Scrolls are an option, but they cost gold, time and XP. If you can scribe some depends on the patience of the group, especially, if the campaign is fast moving...

    At higher levels a warlock can use UMD to tremendous effect and has the choice on when choosing invocations along the way to get things like fly at will all day long (Fell Flight, lesser invocation, speed equal to land speed). He gets energy resistance 5 or 10 to two different energy types, DR (up to) 5/cold iron and Fast Healing 1/day from 1 to 5 (depending on level).
    Nice things, but some spells simply ignore those gimmicks (say Orb of Force). You can fly around 24 h, that's cool, but even DR 5/ cold iron can't protect you from several things. If a warlock meets a fighter, he won't have much problems to survive or realy damage the fighter if he can stay out of range, the wizard or sorcerer is much more...complicated...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  2. #22
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    A wizard or warlock who in in melee range of a high level fighter (or even alow level one) will get his clock cleaned. That is one of the balances between the two "types" of classes.

    A flying warlock with eldritch spear (range 250 ft) and DR 5/cold iron works great against arrows.

    UMD is extremely useful and never discount that one. It can apply to any item (divine or arcane) and any class requirement (depending on spell list for instance). A warlock can take 10 on his UMD check and then apply his charisma modifer (his prime ability) and ranks in UMD - nope this can be real, real useful.

    I have a player running a 2nd level dwarf fight/wizard who has a whole bunch of scrolls he made.

    It take a day per 100o gp market value to make a magic item. A scroll of low level spells usually takes a day (the minimum time) - and a scroll can have up to 6 spells on it and still count as a single item.

    Scrolls are soo cheap it is a shame people don't pay enough attention to that.

    Market price of a scroll = 25 gp x SL x CL
    Material cost = 1/2 of this (or 12.5 gp x SL x CL)
    xp cost = 1/25 of this (or SL x CL)

    The orb spells do not bypass energy resistance only SR - the two are not the same. It is a matter of picking the correct type, but by the same token a wizard or cleric must also choose the correct type when using eleimental resistance type of spells too.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #23
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I would think that its inevitable that at some point, someone needs to conduct a realm turn, or do something significant and allow the spellcasters to really build some backstock on key items. I'd really prefer to see spells as a fall-back last resort power, because the time away from home or the nature of the encounters was unexpected.

    I let druids carve glyphs on their staff, and treat it like a scroll. But they also hand out runes, which function like potions.

    I'm just not keen on seeing spells cast per day be a limit. Scrolls, or the cultural equivilent, should be strikingly common.

  4. #24
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman View Post
    A wizard or warlock who in in melee range of a high level fighter (or even alow level one) will get his clock cleaned.
    If the Wizard/ Warlock can't protect himself adequat, so that the fighter hits often enough: I've never claimed something different...

    A flying warlock with eldritch spear (range 250 ft) and DR 5/cold iron works great against arrows.
    No disagreement , but a wizard with fly and stone skin who cast's disintegrate or polar ray is not this difference...

    UMD is extremely useful and never discount that one. It can apply to any item (divine or arcane) and any class requirement (depending on spell list for instance). A warlock can take 10 on his UMD check and then apply his charisma modifer (his prime ability) and ranks in UMD - nope this can be real, real useful.
    Use Magic Device , jup ok, is more than useful if you have enough magic items available...

    The orb spells do not bypass energy resistance only SR - the two are not the same. It is a matter of picking the correct type, but by the same token a wizard or cleric must also choose the correct type when using eleimental resistance type of spells too.
    I'm aware of the fact that SR and Energy resistance are not the same. Orb of Force has no problems with energy resistance. Only "force ward", "ray deflection" or an unearthly high touch AC protects from it. Energy resistance 10 is nice, but even if you catch the "wrong" energy type, against a 15d6 Orb only a minor annoyance, especially if you can boost the spell by several feats (Searing Spell, Consecrate spell or simply empower/ maximize spell)...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  5. #25
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    BR is a low-magic world, so anyone with great magical power will be a lot more powerful than he might otherwise be. It is a fact of D&D that high-level wizards, clerics and druids are the most powerful characters, bar none.

    Of course, in BR this is different, since hardly anyone reaches high-levels and power is rated on your holdings and influence, rather than your individual power as an adventurer. Prince Fhileraine is noted as one of Anuire's greatest wizards, yet he is a 7/7 Ftr/Mage with access to Tuarhievel's entire sources, as well as being its leader.

  6. #26
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelandrin View Post
    BR is a low-magic world, so anyone with great magical power will be a lot more powerful than he might otherwise be. It is a fact of D&D that high-level wizards, clerics and druids are the most powerful characters, bar none.
    You forgot the Sorcerer, but isn't that true for any setting, not only for BR?
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  7. #27
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    The Sorcerer isn't as powerful as the Wizard/Cleric/Druid, because all three have access to the complete spell lists (either instantly or eventually), as well as having other class powers. The Sorcerer doesn't have these abilities, but is certainly magically powerful.

  8. #28
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelandrin View Post
    Prince Fhileraine is noted as one of Anuire's greatest wizards, yet he is a 7/7 Ftr/Mage.
    How does one explain this?

  9. #29
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    Well he's Elven, with one of the largest Source accesses in Anuire and with a potent Elven kingdom to back him up. If push came to shove, I'm sure Rhuobhe would help out too, considering that the awnshegh is the Prince's greatgrandfather.

  10. #30
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    So then as a consequence he cultivates so little skill despite a millenium to do so? Certainly regardless of what Fhileraine wants, he must undertake actions that would, after so long a life, make him greater than 14th level. One would surmise anyway, so how does one explain his low number of character levels and his long life span?

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