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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Divination

    Divination has to be one of the key fantasic elements of a political setting like Birthright. Both Divine and Arcane spellcasters can cast divinations, and you don't have to be blooded to advance as a divination expert. Diviners probabably have quite some demand for their services.

    One of the most popular forms of divination involves scrying. It is usually achieved by concentrating on or staring at an object having a shiny surface until a vision appears. The methods of scrying differ but after a period of concentration on the speculum visions, mental images, or impressions appear. Frequently the visions are symbolic and the scryer must be trained and skillful in interpreting their meanings. For this reason, among others the Scry skill was very useful.

    Another popular form of divination is astrology. I posted some Astrology rules for d20 in a post on Harald Khorien. What might be interesting is adding secret varients of astrology, representing the many variations there are in its practice, each excluding study of the others.

    Using cards, such as tarot cards is a fun way to get away from dice and do something physical at the gaming table, something pretty rare, unless you use minatures. You can stack the deck to reveal the information you want, or let the cards unfold as they do and either interpret them as an NPC, or let the players do it themselves. Like any random list of plots or adventure hooks, cards can add variety to the game.

    Divination specialists might examine fires, waters, airs, storms, animals, or whatever strikes you for their specialty. These special conditions can be added (or might replace) similar spell componants for divinations.

    What interesting divinations have DM's used?

    Any thoughts on using divinations?

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    Senior Member Dcolby's Avatar
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    I find that unless you are prepared as a D.M. the divinations can be a pain in the rear.
    The Best defense in this case I have found is a good offense, roll the random domain events months in advance so that you as the D.M. have a notion about what events are may be on the horizon and are developing in the campaign so that clues both natural and supernatural can be foreshadowed properly.
    It takes a little work but is much more satisfying than artificial restrictions on the casting of Divinations or responses so vague as to be next to worthless.
    I find this is also a good idea even for non divination purposes, after all such events as an assasination attempt rarely occur in a vaccum and are unlikely to be spontaneous occurances.
    Regents with good spy networks can get clues or warnings of plots that should be in motion long before the domain turn on which the attempt falls.

    As a player I found it very frustrating to have a random event pop up with a D.M. that went from Domain turn to Domain turn. Some events surely are unforseeable, but others stretch the creduality string a little far, even more so with the unprepared D.M.

    "Uh yeah...a Great captain arises in...uh... Ghonalison...he is rallying the locals...and his name is...."

    "Who is this man? If he is a great Captain should I have not heard of him prior to this, especialy if my citizens are placing loyalty in him? Whats his beef with me?"

    Anyway enough ranting. suffice to say Divinations and Spy networks require good D.M. prep. (I could have said just that and spared you all the Verbage)
    Good Morning Peasant!!

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    I find that unless you are prepared as a D.M. the divinations can be a pain in the rear.
    Magic often is for DM's....it is part of the game.

    roll the random domain events months in advance so that you as the D.M. have a notion about what events are may be on the horizon and are developing in the campaign so that clues both natural and supernatural can be foreshadowed properly.
    Which is what needs to happen with divination spells that affect actions during a realm turn, month, or year of activities....this is what the PC should benefit from if they divine the future....although a slippery little "unknown/divulged" event might pop up and really catch them off guard from time to time.

    As a PC, my mage Cerillius Blueleaf had taken horticulture as a proficiency. He had found a great fruit plant existed in a nearby forest that would allow for simple "Yes/No" answers to single questions if imbibed in a special elixir. He went about establishing hot houses to create a store of these potions to help him rule better with simple yes/no answers....it was great to role play...also the anti oxidants helped my PC's overall health.

    It allowed for simple answers on the part of my DM, but allowed me to determine the tenor of an upcoming months encounters without revealing all the details....I could get a lot of yes or no questions in for a month...but my DM ruled that my PC got the trotsky's if he took the potion more than 3 times a week.....so sometimes my PC made proclimations from his garderobe.....on particuallaryly stressful months.

    If a player goes to using divination then they should reap the rewards, although a DM should feel free to mix in something unknown/disclosed from time to time to keep the game lively....

    Later

    Last edited by MatanThunder; 04-11-2007 at 05:23 AM.

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    Senior Member Dcolby's Avatar
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    If a player goes to using divination then they should reap the rewards, although a DM should feel free to mix in something unknown/disclosed from time to time to keep the game lively....

    Later

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the D.M. is obligated to lend an air of mystery to his responses to a divination as opposed to throwing somthing unforseen in to surprise a player.

    The best example may be from MacBeth where he certainly misinterpets the omens provided by the witches. Armed with the forknowledge of upcoming events and a good dose of preplanning the D.M. can throw some Nostradamus like quatrains down on the diviner and let them make of them what they will.

    "From the East will come a challenge when the ice lay hard upon the lands."

    can be a simple enough and vague enough reply to make a player wonder and protect his realm from an easterly invader in the winter months. But it could actualy refer to a personal challenge or some other crisis that falls in a winter turn.

    Or perhaps a late spring which heralds a famine which lowers province loyalty and presents challenge to the Ruler.

    I am not saying that a D.M. should completely gimp a divination, but the responses should never be certain, and should lend a more fantastic element to the campaign.
    Good Morning Peasant!!

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcolby
    I am not saying that a D.M. should completely gimp a divination, but the responses should never be certain, and should lend a more fantastic element to the campaign.
    This is one of the things I like about using skills, even when a spell is cast. Depending on the skill check, you can either fail the test, get a vague but true answer, or get a solid answer. I also think its important to consider how the divination is supposed to occur, because different methods have different strengths and weaknesses. Finally, there is the question itself. If someone asks "what happens next" I am tempted to answer "hunger, then sleep" or something obviously mundane. Does Boeruine plan war is a pretty specific question, but it to can be misinterpreted, because you haven't resolved against whom.

    I recall the Lydian king who consulted the Delpic Oracle and asked if he should make war against the Persian Empire, which spanned from central Anatolia (Turkey) to India. The Oracle answered, a mighty kingdom will fall. Assuming that "a mighty kingdom" refered to Persia, the Lydian king declared war, but the "mighty kingdom" was in fact Lydia.

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    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    I used the Tarot cards provided in an old Ravenloft box several times as a DM, the last time to give my players some hints during a murder mystery set in the Imperial City. This was a small reading, using only the top four or so cards. I removed the cards I wanted them to draw from the deck and let them shuffle the deck. Then I tried to put these cards on top of the deck in secret.
    I still don't know whether they noticed this or are still wondering how I managed to get the cards to perfectly fit my reading.

    I also used the mushroom prophecy from the Tuornen PS. However I translated the words into German and changed the meaning somewhat. It now reads something like:

    One thin supper simmers in the worm's pot.
    One silent dreamer rests on a cold stone.
    Two wan candles glow at the fire's head.
    Two dire brothers sow bones on the field.

    Well, sounds better in German I guess, but that's the meaning.
    My players have found some clues, but are still trying to figure it out. The problem is I still haven't decided what all lines shall mean IMC. Esspecially those two dire brothers are giving me headaches, so suggestions who or what these two might be are welcome...
    Last edited by Beruin; 04-13-2007 at 12:56 PM.

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    While I am completely unaware of where you are from,
    and not at all trying to be insulting, I was just
    wondering what this means to you...this ()
    bit?

    In most places I know of here in the United States and
    Canada, it is a condescending gesture or a gesture
    intending to express general displeasure or
    exasperation.

    No matter the intent, here where I am from it is an
    adversarial expression at worst and at best one of
    displeasure.

    What does it mean where you are from?


    --- MatanThunder <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET> wrote:

    >


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    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Divination has to be one of the key fantasic elements of a political setting like Birthright. Both Divine and Arcane spellcasters can cast divinations, and you don't have to be blooded to advance as a divination expert. Diviners probabably have quite some demand for their services.

    One of the most popular forms of divination involves scrying. It is usually achieved by concentrating on or staring at an object having a shiny surface until a vision appears. The methods of scrying differ but after a period of concentration on the speculum visions, mental images, or impressions appear. Frequently the visions are symbolic and the scryer must be trained and skillful in interpreting their meanings. For this reason, among others the Scry skill was very useful.

    Another popular form of divination is astrology. I posted some Astrology rules for d20 in a post on Harald Khorien. What might be interesting is adding secret varients of astrology, representing the many variations there are in its practice, each excluding study of the others.

    Using cards, such as tarot cards is a fun way to get away from dice and do something physical at the gaming table, something pretty rare, unless you use minatures. You can stack the deck to reveal the information you want, or let the cards unfold as they do and either interpret them as an NPC, or let the players do it themselves. Like any random list of plots or adventure hooks, cards can add variety to the game.

    Divination specialists might examine fires, waters, airs, storms, animals, or whatever strikes you for their specialty. These special conditions can be added (or might replace) similar spell componants for divinations.

    What interesting divinations have DM's used?

    Any thoughts on using divinations?
    One of the Vos priests in our campaign uses bloodstains/patterns on ceremonial robes after a particularly nasty sacrifice. While they have the basic society and trappings of 12th and 13th century Rus and Kiev in our game, the fact that they serve Kriesha and Belinik, gives them the barbaric and fierce reputation in the campaign material (2e). I imaging that they can read entrails as well.

    An Anuirean PC uses tarot like cards. Depending on whether the card is right side up or upside down can alter the meaning. She can get snapshots of the future, but only gives her enough details, like her husband is in danger or will be involved in a life or death fight, she can't see the final outcome as it all depends on the other character.

    In our campaign, when the Binsadans rode on Anuire (the WIZARD came out of hiatus), she appeared as the avatar of Leira (sp) and whipped up a furor with the more extremist Binsadans and later appeared as the white eagle of Avani and the Binsadans took it as a good omen to commence with the ride against Anuire (see the PS of Binsada for the prophecy of the Queen of Binsada standing before the Iron Throne).

    *It's not against the Wizard's programming to impersonate a deity (or their avatar). Insert evil grin.

    I think depending on the nature of the vision and the related event, should been more or less accurate; the more dangerous and all encompassing the event, the more accurate and direct the vision. The less dangerous or important, the more vague. The final outcome should never be predicted since characters can change the course of events.
    Last edited by Jaleela; 04-16-2007 at 05:03 PM.

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    On 4/16/07, MatanThunder <brnetboard@birthright.net> wrote:
    > And this is the type of response anyone can expect when posting any type of idea contrary to your own.
    > Quite insulting really......what a b***.

    MatanThunder, please stop flaming people on this board. I understand
    that you`re very excited about what you`re posting. Be a bit more
    polite about it, and everyone will get along better.

    And starring out your profanity doesn`t make you innocent, either.

    --
    Daniel McSorley

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    The word was Boor....not enough asterisks for the curse word.

    AS to the inflamatory nature, I will try to keep it in neutral. I hope the mods are even handed here.....seem like I wasn't the only one having strong opinions.

    Later



    Rolleyes refers to the often......I am forced to defend my point of views about magic & game levels. It seems to be never ending, but each DM pretty much has their own style of play. Within the rules of course (2nd Ed rules).

    I do try to get along.

    Later


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