View Poll Results: What is the role of the guilder?

Voters
116. You may not vote on this poll
  • Explorer/Adventurer

    12 10.34%
  • Domain Guild Expert

    82 70.69%
  • Rogue/Noble Hybrid

    38 32.76%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47
  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    248
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    I guess the question is, first impression:

    When you think of a guilder, what is the first thing you think of?

    Merchant
    Explorer
    Thief
    Banker
    Tradesman
    Other?

    When someone says Guild or Guilder, the first thing I think of is a Merchant. Personally, I think "Guilder" as a class, is a misnomer. I think Merchant is a more suitable class identifier looking at it historically.

    Guilds traditionally offer a service or a specialty skill/product. These Guilds are run by a master(s). Masters are exactly that, masters of a specialized trade; they decide everything that relates to their trade, from the rules of how to do something, to the penalties assigned if done incorrectly, to who can join the mystery or not, examples of guilds. saddler, loriner, cordwainer, dyer, drapier, grocier, goldsmith, etc... There are very interesting records that deal with inter-guild disputes which can easily offer ideas for domain turns resulting in "Trade Matter".

    If one thinks in terms of Medieval Italy or Spain, you have Merchant Adventurers or Explorers. The Merchant may be the captain of the vessel with a crew of sailors and some military might to protect the interests of the venture. He might be the hiring party to send adventurers out to find new and exotic spices beyond the Dragon Isles. He might be like Colombus, seeking a new trade route. He could be an Anuirean Banker setting up an office in the Free City of Ilien, or he could be a merchant like Hassan el-Hadid, who has connections (and a means of intelligence) all over the south coast.

    Needless to say, depending on the type the player wants to portray, they could have all of the aspects that were listed in the poll.

    Guilder as a domain ruler would have to be an able adminstrator and have some notion of how the military works (to maintain his position and defend his holdings) and may have acquired the latter skill in a merchantile venture that involved forging into hostile territory.

    I don't think having a mixture of skills would classify them as an "uber-class", but a ruler of a domain should be exceptional not typical.

    Perhaps classifying them as primarily Merchant/Guilder with skill sets that are broken down into the categories that you came up with.

    Just some early morning ramblings.

  2. #12
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    The fighter is the master of combat, and can, in theory, master any type of combat, be it archery, mounted combat, swords and shields, axes, pole arms, what have you.

    In practice, the fighter can master as many fighting styles as his feats will allow, and to the depth that his feats will allow. The fighter in the generic classes in UA is exactly like the fighter. Of course the fighter's flexibility is in feats, which are themselves pretty specific. Skills are much more generic than feats, and a generic skills based character would, as irdeggman suggests, be too wide open for a setting that also includes very narrow character concept like wizards (who must be blooded) and paladins.

    So the question of a class that is good at all commerce can only be so, in as much as the fighter is good at all combat. He might have the potential to be smuggler, or banker, or kingpin, or mine owner, or ship captain, but he shouldn't be able to be all of these things and more than a fighter can be archer, knight, pikeman, swordsman, axeman all at the same time.

  3. #13

    Cool The "Guild" in "Guilder"

    I guess the "Guild" in "Guilder" make me go for non-adventurer.
    Sure adventurers are lured by gold too, but the term guilder lends itself more to an overweight brecht-speaking burger, who's favorite weapon is his toungue; not his rapier. The noble/rogue doesn't convey the sense of administration and sometimes dogmatic money-making aspect to some of the more successful guilders.
    "A noble would not miss a banquet or a ball, a rogue, would probably go too, but the guilder would have more important things to do; meet with vendors, or negociate over a brew to expand his trading empire anew."

  4. #14
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrano24100
    "A noble would not miss a banquet or a ball, a rogue, would probably go too, but the guilder would have more important things to do; meet with vendors, or negociate over a brew to expand his trading empire anew."
    As someone who regularly attends the events sponsored by the Chamber of Commerce (how long do you suppose that term dates back to?) I can attest there are plenty of banquets for business folks too. That's where the vendors, competition, and customers are.

    http://www.springfieldchamber.com/nc...mber_calendar/

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    248
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    I had posted something earlier, but for some reason it never showed.

    When someone says Guilder to me, I see a Merchant or Tradesmen. A person who is adapt in administration, trade, negotiation, and sometimes as Merchant adventurer/explorer, and sometimes depending on their alignment and resources as a "carpet bagger" in which case the rogue applies.

    Normally I don't view them in game terms or in a historical view as nobles. But BR doesn't limit domain level rulers from coming from a non-noble class and taking up the reins of power.

    Guilders can fall into several categories and perhaps skill-sets could apply.

    Administrative (Banker or Minister of trade)
    Merchant Adventurer (personally goes to new places)
    Explorer (finds new places may be hired by another party)
    Noble: might be a second son/daughter that doesn't have any prospects of inheriting the kingdom)
    Rogue: Pirate or other party that may have orders of mark to intefere with another regent's shipping and trade and making a profit.

    Just some thoughts.

  6. #16
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Woerden, Netherlands
    Posts
    10,375
    Downloads
    47
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaleela
    I had posted something earlier, but for some reason it never showed.
    recently theres a spamfilter installed on the forum which puts posts on moderated when certain words are used (and members have less then 10 posts)

    but the post is approved now
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    southwest Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    370
    Downloads
    90
    Uploads
    0
    As Havens of the Great Bay describes, merchant is one possible career for a guilder, but not the only one. Farmers, sailors, etc might also be guilders- if they have the proper mettle. Guilders are meant to be as viable an adventuring class as any other.

    So even in 2nd Ed, guilders were more than mere merchants. Now that we're in 3E, the trend is to expand the role that classes can have even further.

    Thus i am surprised that so many people think guilder = merchant. This narrower definition seems a bit contrary to the 3E spirit, imo.


    -Fizz

  8. #18
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Moschato, Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,130
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Actually, most of us pretty much refer to it as one sort of mercantile profession or another, and not a merchant per se. Furthermore, none expanded the role of any classes, we simply expand their scope; these two things are very, very different, you know...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    248
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz

    Thus i am surprised that so many people think guilder = merchant. This narrower definition seems a bit contrary to the 3E spirit, imo.

    -Fizz
    Perhaps it has far more to do with historical tradition.

  10. #20
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,188
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7
    At 04:41 AM 1/18/2007, kgauck wrote:

    >If the noble has a role, and the rogue has a role, how is it that a
    >noble/rogue hybrid has to lack any role, and be purely mechanical?

    I don`t think characterizing noble/rogue as a mechanic is quite
    right, but I do think it makes sense to argue that it is already
    covered by the multi-classing mechanic, and to a certain extent we
    should acknowledge that such descriptions are really a sort of
    short-hand rather than a truthful assessment of such combined
    character themes. That is, when character classes are purely a mix
    of the stats and abilities of other classes then we could probably
    look at such a class and assume that its "theme" would be better
    expressed by multi-classing, but when that class really does have
    different stats and new class abilities, then the class is more
    independent than the noble/rogue (or paladin/monk, druid/bard,
    whatever) description of it really has.

    However, a class that is described as a "skill master" really is
    something more of a mechanic than a theme since we get no actual
    basis for the theme itself. The rogue is often described as the
    skill master, but since the class has class skills there really is a
    theme to the idea. A guilder class that just had a bunch of skill
    points and an open-ended choice of class skills (which a previous
    suggestion was IIRC) is more mechanic than thematic.

    Gary

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.