Elves and their place in the World

[Chaos Lord Arioch]

I was refering to Chioran's version of the "big bang" but spontaneous spawning sounds good ;) Of course the Sidhelien wouldn't define it as the big bang theory.
They would probably describe it as "the beginning of the world, the elements combined out of nothingness, created the world and the sidhelien, etc, etc"

[Riegan Swordwraith]

How about the Sidhelein were travellers from the Realm of Faerie.....no muss,no fuss......

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Lawgiver

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred
Their entire existence pays respect to their creator and their creator gives them powers. Their creator favors druids by not making them pray for spells, yet they elven druids still pay homage to the land and in doing so "pray" to thier creator.

Who is the creator of elves?

I know I have posted this somewhere else but it is Corellon Larethian.

In your world it would most likely be God? Genesis I:20-25

"Then God said, "Let the waters abound with life, and above the earth let winged creatures fly below the firmament of the heavens." And so it was. God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of living, swimming creatures with which the waters abound and all kinds of winged birds. God saw that it was good, and God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the waters of the seas; and let the birds multiply on the earth." And there was evening and morning, the fifth day.

God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, crawling creatures and wild animals." And so it was. God made all kinds of wild beasts, every kind of cattle, and every kind of creature crawling on the ground. And God saw it was good."

Who else would have made the elves in your campaign? Didn't god create everything?

[centAUr]

I think that the version of the dwarven cosmology(posted by Kenneth Gauck) about the creation of the elves in Cerilia is quite good.
The elves are children of the Magic and Chaos and quite equal to the first powers. Thus they don't need to worsip, are immortal and immune to sickness etc. etc.
In short words the Cerilian Elves are of the same staff the powers are, as children of Chaos and Magic and are not created by them :).

[Lord Eldred]

Larian Songsine, Priest of Corellon Larethian describes the beginning as this:
"From the primordial turmoil at the center of the universe sprang the gods full-fledged, full-formed. Each claimed jurisdiction over certain effects, all being equally endowed with the power and force of the cosmos. They cooperated for the first (and the last) time to create the worlds. But some gods used their powers more wisely than their brethren.

An early alliance formed among these wiser gods. They knew how to manipulate their power. This gathering of gods, who called themselves the Seldarine (or the Brothers and Sisters of the Wood), imparted their very essence into creating certain aspects of the worlds.

While other gods squabbled over jurisdiction and possession of this virtue and that attribute, the Seldarine modified some of the lands, making their worlds lush and green and beautiful. In addition, they created vessels that would one day hold the spirit of the first sentient life to set foot upon these worlds-the race of beings known as the Elves. They crafted these vessels with thought and care, and gave them extraordinary beauty. The other gods grew black with jealousy, and they thirsted to imitate the Seldarine.

These gods hastily fashioned their own vessels, vying against those created by the Seldarine. But they would not invest the time vital to creating a race, and so their results were flawed-the gods did not care. Their creations were nothing like those shaped by the Seldarine. Most were Monsters, creatures that would one day haunt the dreams of Elves. Of all the crude creations, only the vessel reserved for Man held a glimmer of potential, for they would one day have the ability to change the land as would the Elves.

The gods of new races tried too hastily to reproduce a feat that had taken the wiser gods eons. But neither group's constructs would not come to life until the historic meeting between Corellon Larethian and Gruumsh, leader of the Anti-Seldarine."

[Lawgiver]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred
In your world it would most likely be God? Genesis I:20-25

"Then God said, "Let the waters abound with life, and above the earth let winged creatures fly below the firmament of the heavens." And so it was. God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of living, swimming creatures with which the waters abound and all kinds of winged birds. God saw that it was good, and God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the waters of the seas; and let the birds multiply on the earth." And there was evening and morning, the fifth day.

God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, crawling creatures and wild animals." And so it was. God made all kinds of wild beasts, every kind of cattle, and every kind of creature crawling on the ground. And God saw it was good."

Who else would have made the elves in your campaign? Didn't god create everything?

Actually the demi-human races posed a bit of a problem in the creation account of the Bible. Since they are non-existant they aren't subtly ignored :P

To compensate I use the following:

The history of elves is different based on two points of view. From the elven point of view, they were created by a divine being who saw the beauty of the earth in its creation, and created beings to ensure that it’s beauty was preserved. They were created from the four basic elements of fire, earth, water and air. The elves were created from the substances of the earth to protect the earth.

From the human perspective, elves were created by Azrai/Satan in an alternate form (2 Cor. 11:14 “But I am not surprised! Even Azrai/Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light.”). When Azrai/Satan was cast out of heaven and fell to earth he saw the great wonder of Gods creation and his perfect creation--man. Though he succeeded in tempting man to eat the forbidden fruit he did not succeed in destroying mankind. At some point in time (unknown in written history) Azrai/Satan who could not create “life” (beings with souls) created elves from the elements of fire, earth, water, and air. He constantly subjected these “beings” to subtle propaganda and lies to grow with in them hatred and prejudice against humans that would develop into war. Most humans view elves as “demonic” in nature, ironically elves view humans in much the same way.

There are a few “good” elves that have managed to somehow overcome their heritage of hate. Fhileraene, the Prince of Tuarhievel is one of the few. He has done much to convince many of his subjects, though he has slowly brought the realm to the brink of civil war on the issue. Most are hated by their fellow elves and are viewed as ultimate traitors who should be punished with death.

[Lord Eldred]

Lawgiver which viewpoint is true?

If they were created from a divine being (god) and they believe that, couldn't they worship that divine being and thus be clerics?

If they were created by Azrai but don't believe, couldn't it be possible that they have religion worshiping a divine being that does not exist? It would mean they couldn't be clerics with true powers granted by a divine being.

If they believe that Azrai is the divine being then they could worship Azrai and be clerics with granted powers.


P.S. If elves did exist then that passage of the bible would apply and god created elves.

[Eric McLuen]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Lawgiver which viewpoint is true?

If they were created from a divine being (god) and they believe that, couldn't they worship that divine being and thus be clerics?

If they were created by Azrai but don't believe, couldn't it be possible that they have religion worshiping a divine being that does not exist? It would mean they couldn't be clerics with true powers granted by a divine being.

If they believe that Azrai is the divine being then they could worship Azrai and be clerics with granted powers.

Both cases could be true. Consider the early Christian gnostics. It is true that they believed they were created with the divine spark or soul, in essence a fragment of God (big G). However the creator of the earth (the god of the Old Testament) was actually evil and was the cause of all suffering. Only by cutting through all the corruption of the earthly world could the divine spark be freed to return to God. With this viewpoint the gods of the humans are actually evil in that they are tied to the phisical world (as evident by their domains) and try to keep us trapped here preventing the soul from passing beyond. Therefore an elf would not worship an earthly god for that would only be reinforcing the corruption of the flesh. The true God would be beyond earthly worship and could not be explained, only experienced when true gnosis (knowledge) was achieved.

This may be getting a bit too theological for a generally pagan FRP but I find Lawgiver's arguments from an apparent devout Christian point of view very intriguing.

[Lord Eldred]

Thanks Eric but I was asking Lawgiver :)

[Eric McLuen]

Pardon my kibitzing.