Player rewards in RPG

[Sigmund]

This thread has gotten me thinking.

I may only give story XP in my game. I've been doing this so far, just as a plot point. The Regents have to travel to the Temple of Rilni in Khourane, and I wasn't going to let them take their Paladin and Priest levels until they completed the quests. Somewhere along the way I decided I would automatically level them once they completed the quest.

So, maybe that's how I will handle the entire game. No XP for anything except storyline awards.

It's something that could be considered for the official rules.

Can't remember if I mentioned it before, but True20's system is to not have one really. Basically, the GM levels up the PCs whenever they feel that it's needed/warranted. So far, the other DMs in the group have been doing this with DnD and it has worked just fine so far. We, as players, have not had to keep track of xp, and the DM hasn't had to worry about calculating xp for encounters, yet we all feel like we're advancing just fine. I have read posts of others complaining about the lack of xp in True20, but most of them don't seem to have actually tried it out in their game yet.

[Birthright-L]

I think one of the key reasons why "leveling up" is such a big deal to
players of D&D, and other similiar rewards in other games, is because once
they are assigned, they basically empower a player to make key decisions
that change the aspect of the game - at least, the most important aspect:
that player`s character.

Contacts and reputation and such aren`t really tangible rewards in the same
sense as XP, because they are completely open to interpretation by the DM,
and can change depending on the whims of the DM or the needs of his story at
any particular moment. DM`s are notorious for this... if you make a really
good friend out of a powerful NPC, pretty soon that powerful NPC is going to
need YOUR help. Player`s XP pools aren`t usually manipulated in this way...
once they are handed out, they are given to the players to do with as they
will (within certian restrictions, usually known ahead of time).

Thus, if you use things like contacts and reputation as rewards, they need
some kind of rules to back them up so players have some reassurance of how
and when they could be useful. If that idea is left too abstract or open to
interpretation in a game where DM gets first and last call, all of these
things are still effectively owned by the DM, not the player, and thus never
actually handed out as rewards.




--
ROLL THE DICE: Dedicated to the exploration of ideas and concepts in Game
Design and Theory.
http://lordrahvin.wordpress.com

[irdeggman]

Let me see if I'm folowing the gist of what is going on beneath the discussion (I could be wrong though).

The underlying text to me is reading "I don't like the D&D xp system so I want to use a different one for Birthright".

Is that about a fair assumption of what I've been reading or am I off some where?

[RaspK_FOG]

As far as I can tell, it's more like: "I dislike the way D&D rewards characters (i.e. levelling up), so what can be done about it?"

[Birthright-L]

Speaking just for myself here, I was interested in, "In what other ways
could we offer players rewards instead of or in addition to the way D&D
rewards characters (i.e. levelling up).

[ploesch]

Specifically for BR there are so many options, especially for regents.

Key Alliances
Marriage with strong Bloodline.
Regency Points
Gold Bars
Holdings
heirlooms OR hereditary weapons/Items
Additional Units (unmustered troops, must pay upkeep to keep them)

All of those can even be RP experiences also, rewards for good roleplaying, and something they can create themselves.

On a personal Character Note:
HP (make up those lost points (I allow this by default in my games))
Bonus Skill Points
Increased Saves
Loyal Henchmen
Increased Bloodscore
Additional Blood Powers (careful here)

I'm sure there is allot more, but those are some non-experience awards that come to mind.

[geeman]

At 02:35 AM 10/6/2006, irdeggman wrote:

>Let me see if I`m folowing the gist of what is going on beneath the
>discussion (I could be wrong though).
>
>The underlying text to me is reading "I don`t like the D&D xp system
>so I want to use a different one for Birthright".
>
>Is that about a fair assumption of what I`ve been reading or am I
>off some where?

In particular I`d suggest it`s more relevant to us where it relates
to BR. That is, the D&D XP system doesn`t work particularly well in
a "low-level" setting, so other means of rewarding characters are appropriate.

In any case, I`d suggest a few things for player rewards in BR:

1. GB.

2. RP.

3. A magic item. (We really should consider these alternative awards
in a low-magic-item setting like BR.)

4. Domain level rewards like a temporary or permanent domain
abilities like an increase in GB production, a higher population
level, an improved fortification, etc.

5. A temporary or permanent improvement to an existing domain level
stat. A province or holding level might improve, a unit`s stats
might go up, a loyalty level might increase.

6. An increase in bloodline, blood ability, etc.

7. Improved diplomatic relations with another realm as portrayed in a
bonus to diplomacy actions.

Gary

[kgauck]

I had no problem with the D&D xp system. I found it quite easy to manipulate to get the outcome I desired. By keeping CR's around 6, 7, or 8, PC's stop advancing past 10-12th level. Of course players could cast their view to published (or otherwise well known) high CR foes, but instead my players were concerned about their realms, and didn't go looking for trouble.

I did use rewards other than xp, including the other old school stand-by, gold. I used some of the suggestioned already mentioned, such as domain level rewards, increases in blood strength, diplomatic events like allies, leiutenants, and friendly reactions, and so forth.

Examples might include,
A ruined keep in Hjorvaal, scene of the famous last stand of Åke Kjellsson and his Foresters. Old Åke was once Eorl of Hjorvaal and he and his followers were sealed up in their stone keep by the Eorl of Nalhorske. Åke sent out word for assistance and relief, but Nalhorske somehow laid a fog upon all of Hjorvaal that made it quite difficult for courriers to bring news in or out of Hjorvaal. Anyway, the stone keep lay in ruins, occupied most recently by brigands of Rjuvik. Once cleared out, I declared the keep could be restored to a level 1 fortress with minimal spending, mostly to get the labor and materials out to this distand outpost. Plus, the oppressed people of Nalhorske were happy that the party had cleared out these briagands and eliminated one of their bases. Finally a level 0 law holding of old Fulgar the Bloodhanded was declared destroyed in Hjorvaal.

There was the famous incident with Ragnvald the dread sea monser which preyed upon shipping in the Tael Firth. As the Siren developed trade she caused the monster, Ragnvald, to be driven away, and it took up residence on the routes from Hollingholmen to Nowelton in Talinie and Seaharrow in Boeruine. When the adventureres slew the dread Ragnvald, they improved the loyalty of the people in Ustkjuvil, won two favors from Storm Holtson, and two of the party members increased their blood strength by one point for defeating a significant threat to their realm.

But I also used some other kinds of rewards too. There were adventures that amounted to free domain actions. Information gained was like a free Espionage Action, or could apply a bonus to a subsiquent Espionage, Agitate, or Contest Action. Sometimes information was not at the domain level, but was useful to characters as books, such as histories for a bard, theological disputations for a cleric, or alchemical theories for a wizard. Here I would regard the book as a circumstance bonus on the book's topic, if the book was present at the time of the check. Such books may include secret alchemical formulas for potions which can provide metamagic effects. Using the book as a guide allows you to make a maximized potion of jump. Books may include other kinds of secrets, like prose or poetry descriptions of treasure, their location, original protections, &c.

Players could make personal allies, not just political allies. There are nice sets of rules in Demagogues and Dynasties and City Works that deal with information networks and other kinds of favor economies. Basically, once the player has a ally, if you ask for assistance in an area the ally has influence in, make a Diplomacy check, and the the roll determines the level of aid. The DM can finess the aid to some degree, but the player has a tangible benefit, "I rolled a 19, significant aid will be forthcomming."

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com