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Thread: Too Much Money?

  1. #1
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Too Much Money?

    I'm running my first 3ed BRCS game, and I'm finding the Guild Regents coffers to be overflowing with money, or at least they will be soon enough. The regent took over Points East trading in Elinie, and I don't see many ways to limit their generation of money.

    There is very little maintenance costs for a Guilder, especially if they are friends with the province ruler (who even maintains the highways) and most of his trade routes stay withingthe provinces borders, since Elinie has 3 terrain types.

    Am I missing something?

    It has been a while since I've run any BR campaign, and this is the first time under the 3ed BRCS rules. I don't remember guilders gaining as much money per season, but maybe it's because points east is a fair sized organization.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    There are no details to your querry, so it seems to amount to asking if guilders should be rich, and the answer to that is "yes".

    If you mean to ask about the mechanics of income collection, you need to explain what you are doing.

    If you are concerned that normal costs are missing because of players alliances (you mention a friendly province ruler in a subjunctive case) then help would require details of the allies, enemies, and neutrals.

    Given just what I would assume about Points East Trading Company, all PE's friends are going to want frequent updates on all the dangers in the area, including Markazor, the Gorgon, Ghoere, Osoerde, and the Sielwode. Running a spy network to keep track of these realms alone can be costly and suck up all the ruler's turns, free espionage action or no. No one else will have the bonuses, the free actions, or the time to run these spy networks. Only two neighbors, Mhoried and Coeranys are not hostile, expansionist, or liable to collapse into civil war. These kinds of operations will be expensive to maintain and make useful, probabaly represented by high GB spending to influence Espionage Actions. Maesil Shippers and Highland/Overland Traders would both be interested in grabbing some holdings in Elinie if PE looks like its tapped out. Regency probabaly needs to be spent to smack down attempts by MS and H/OT to move in, as well as keeping in reserve to keep these two from just spending their way into Elinie.

    As a general rule, if everyone is at peace, everyone makes a mint. If danger is everywhere, so much money is consumed in defences, whether anyone fights or not is not really material, spending is huge.

  3. #3
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    OK, I see what your saying. Sorry, for not being more clear.

    I have the mechanics down. It just seems to me that Guilders make far more money than anyone else in a campaign, more than they did in 2E, while not having many expenses built in.

    But I suppose I need to force him to spend as the Gm. I think I can do that. : >

    Your assumptions about PE are indeed correct. We just started the campaign, and I allowed them to take over appropriate Domains, Since the one guy that is being a regent wanted to rule Elinie, the priest took over LPA and Rogue PET.

    Since they are new to the setting, I've been being lite on them and that very well could be what is leading to the bloat of his treasury, but neither the Regent of LPA or the Province ruler of Elinie are coming close to the income of the guilder. I think his income is close to the other two combined. That's why it seems off to me.
    Last edited by ploesch; 09-21-2006 at 10:48 PM.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Well as pointed out if the landed regent is "giving" away access to the roads for trade routes then of course the guilder is "making out".

    In games I've played in (or run) there is usually a "price" to pay for this "free access", maybe in future "loans" or some other benefit.

    Also guilds are usually the most contested holdings there are, essentially because of the income they generate. If no one is contesting these holdings, well then the guilder is "making out".

    Basically the guilder should be watching his back much more so than any other regent. If he is not then things are probably going to easy for him - well that is my opinion anyway.

    The benefit for guilds is great, so then the risk associated with them should be too.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    This kind of campaign, where three guys take three over-lapping realms like Elinie, LPA, and PET, can be a lot of fun. The advanage for you as a DM is that they will act more like a traditional party, working together, covering each other's backs, and so forth. So, approch them the same way in creating problems for them. Imagine them in a room, back to back to back, surrounded by knights of Ghoere, men at arms from Osoerde, goblins from Markazor, undead legions from the Gorgon, and man-hating elves from Sielwode.

    In general, I like to give players more to do than they can do. So they end up picking the threat they will face by inaction. I would have all of these hostile realms plotting against them to one degree or another. Here are a few seeds to consider
    1) Assess what the PC's want to do with Osoerde. Support Raenech and close off private sources of support and refuge for Moergen? Have the Duke's reprensenatives ask for this policy. Support Moergen with quiet support in the form of a GB here and a RP there? Support would make Moergan a friend, but Raenech an enemy. Even if the PC's opt for strict neutrality, Raenech should be a bit of nusance in his efforts to pursue Moergan, establishing holdings in Elinie to watch for Moergan and his supporters, troops crossing the border in pursuit of Moergen's men or the pretender himself. Just keeping Raenech on his side of Osoerine should cost the occasional RP and GB.
    2) What will transpire in Sielwode? Will Queen Isaelie drift toward Rhuobhe or Corwin? Even if you, as DM, want to see Corwin triumph for story purposes, put enough bumps in the road that the PC's spend actions and resources to protect themselves or woo friends.
    3) They say, "It won't be long until Tael tires of the Mhor's opposition and begins an all-out war." Of course Elinie has only one serious ally in the event of Gorgon inspired mayhem out of Markazor, and that's Mhoried. How will the PC's want to play this? Will the pro-activly court Gavin Tael? Daeric Mhoried? Or wait until events throw them into the arms of one or the other?
    4) Raids from Markazor are a matter of course. While these could be delegated to a lieutenant, it might be possible that more direct involvement would be worth an espionage action in terms of gaining information about furture intentions.
    5) Speaking of which, what is the Gorgon up to and what is his time-table? Where I the old pretender to the Iron Throne, I would use agents to inspire a war between Ghoere and Mhoried and then when both sides are bloodied, invade. This gives you the opportunity to have the players get involved in a direct struggle with the Gorgon with a great deal of the risk lying elsewhere.
    6) Moerele Lannaman is a partisan of Mhoried, and it might be reasonable for the Maesil Shippers to conclude that what is best for Mhoried and Maesil is for Lannaman to get GB's and RP's in Elinie, especially if the PC's don't strike bargains of friendship. Even if things are cordial between Elinie and the Mhor, it might be expected that Lannaman wants to know that things are cordial and that Elinie isn't cutting deals with Ghoere on the side. Maesil will be the least doscile of the institutions in Mhoried if friendly overtures are made.
    7) Haelyn's Aegis and the Militant Order of Cuiraecen probabaly spend most of their time looking in other directions, but that doesn't mean they don't want to see the influence of Haelyn dominant in Elinie again. These temples may actually want a war between Ghoere and Mhoried for theological reasons (best way to resolve a conflict is to let the conflict submit itself to battle, get experience to steel themseles against the Gorgon) not to mention the hope that such actions will improve the power of the temples of the sword while other holdings are deminished. These two are least likely to regard war as something to be avoided.
    8) Also, there is the issue of the holdings of LPA in Ghoere. If Ghoere regards the PC's with cool distain he may attempt to buy off Haelyn's Ageis and/ or the Militant Order of C by giving them the green light to reclaim those provinces for the father and son of the sword. Ghoere may also worry about these LPA holdings housing spys or being supporters and friends of spies in the form of PET holdings or agents.
    9) Ghorien Hiriele is thought by some to be a puppet guilder of Gavin Tael. Is this the case? In any event, is Highland/Overland Traders in league with Ghoere, attacking her enemies, spying on her threats? Is this just a way for Kalien and Lannaman to smear Hiriele? Depending on your answers, there are still plenty of reasons to see Hiriele spend time and energy to cause trouble for PET, LPA, and Elinie. If Tael wants LPA out of Ghoere, expect H/OT to play a role, from assainations against top LPA officials, to stiring sectarian scism among the followers of LPA (watch out for a Great Captain event that ends up creating the Solar Temple of Ghoere).

    These seeds are just based on the pre-existing problems facing Elinie. If you want internal problems to beset the realm, I can give you seeds there too. Domestic problems will generally be disagreements about what's best for Elinie. Throw some personal rivalries, and some vanity and you can spend time and maybe a few GB solving problems in your court and council.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Thank You so much.
    I had considered most of those situations, but there are some really great ideas there I can work with. Very Much Apreciated.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  7. #7
    Being rich also comes with some fun in-character things you know.

    Like our fellow regent who put down 50 gold pieces on the bar of an inn hinting we were looking for 'a lucrative job'. We were trying to infiltrate a bunch of thieves you see...

    And promptly got arrested that night when the bartender called in the guards, /his/ own guards. That much money was suspicious and he was all like "But... well... to me it's next to nothing..."

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Try giving a gp to a begger and find out how quickly you get "mobbed". Happened to one of my players when he did that.
    Duane Eggert

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    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman
    Try giving a gp to a begger and find out how quickly you get "mobbed". Happened to one of my players when he did that.
    To that effect, allow us to repeat this:
    Lower class: copper pieces.
    Middle class: silver pieces.
    Upper class: gold pieces.
    Treasury: platinum pieces.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    I always run my games on the silver peice. Not quite as cumbersome as the Copper, but more common than a Gold, it's the $10 bill of my games.

    My players have learned to pay for stuff in silver, and keep their gold hidden, only using it when necessary.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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