What Was Azrai's Home Plane?

[irdeggman]

Like I said, from other texts I've read the gods erected a barrier between the two worlds, and only certain cretures could travel between the two. After the cataclysm, the barrier was weakened.

What are these texts? I'd like to know if I've missed something.

[Thomas_Percy]

The cataclycism at Deismaar tore down much of the boundary that separates the two worlds. It was not possible (or at least much more difficult) to travel from one to another before Deismaar. After Deismaar, it became much easier (not necessarily easy, but easiER).-Fizz

Now, I understand. Thanks.
So it was possible for Azrai to made the Shadow World his home plane (maybe even he created it), because it was unknown, and unreachable for anyone else place, used by him for quick (plane shift) travel for his armies.

If that is the first contridiction in the 2nd ed material you've found - well you haven't read enough.
Blood Spawn was written after the Atlas and thus has more complete information, IMO..

Exactly, I don't read Brt books (with the exception of Brt 3,5) "published" after TSR collapse, because I don't trust them (lack of coordinator, publisher at the edge of bankrupcy broadly known from poor quality). Honestly, every Brt book (besides above mentioned Brt 3,5) has mistakes and inconsistencies, so I lightheartely alter any original material in my campaign.

Thanks for help, I appreciate it very much.

[RaspK_FOG]

OK, allow me to reiterate for your convenience:

There was once a time when the crystal sphere (read: universe) of "Birthright" amongst the world of the multiverse was made out of the raw stuff of everlasting chaos and constant change (that's the cosmological view, anyway).

At some point, the "planet" formed, and then the Seeming of what was to be the Shadow World and the material world that was to be Aebrynis were one and the same, combined in one, not quite malleable, not quite ever changing; it was at that point that the gods, originating from the world itself, quite a part of it, appeared on the land.

But the world was still changing, and with that their power and domain over the world. So, the 6 non-evil deities contributed to the stabilisation of the world, and, thus, their power. At that point, Aebrynis was formed, and the other side of the world became the Shadow World; Azrai, the Face of Evil, was fascinated as much as drawn to this raw force of chaos and started drawing his power from it. It is then that he recided within the Shadow World, and probably the reason he became more powerful than the other 6 deities - he was the only one who drew power from that source.

[Fizz]

If that is the first contridiction in the 2nd ed material you've found - well you haven't read enough.

Now i'm confused- what contradiction are you talking about?

-Fizz

[irdeggman]

Now i'm confused- what contradiction are you talking about?

-Fizz

Shadow World not being "discovered" until after Deismaar.

It existing long before that (per Blood Spawn).

Halflings have been present on Aebryinnis (sp) since before that and they could travel between the two.

Elves and the the Faeries are from the same source (the Sie).

The Lost were taken from Aebrynnis and placed in the Shadow World (well that is the implication in the story of how Azrai recruited them - again in Blood Spawn).

etc.

Now the "fact" that travel and the "crossover" was more common after Deismaar is a different issue and really not in any apparent contridiction.

[Fizz]

Shadow World not being "discovered" until after Deismaar.

It existing long before that (per Blood Spawn).

Halflings have been present on Aebryinnis (sp) since before that and they could travel between the two.

Elves and the the Faeries are from the same source (the Sie).

The Lost were taken from Aebrynnis and placed in the Shadow World (well that is the implication in the story of how Azrai recruited them - again in Blood Spawn).

etc.

Now the "fact" that travel and the "crossover" was more common after Deismaar is a different issue and really not in any apparent contridiction.

OK, i guess i didn't see this as a contradiction, i thought it was a matter of whether it was common knowledge or not.

The Shadow World was not `discovered', that is, not commonly known to exist nor even written in any arcane or history texts, until after Deismaar.

In other words, i never thought that it's `discovery' precluded it's existence beforehand.

Keep in mind that the Atlas is written `by' Calidhe Dosiere. It's an in-game explanation.

-Fizz

[Green Knight]

Exactly, I don't read Brt books (with the exception of Brt 3,5) "published" after TSR collapse, because I don't trust them (lack of coordinator, publisher at the edge of bankrupcy broadly known from poor quality). Honestly, every Brt book (besides above mentioned Brt 3,5) has mistakes and inconsistencies, so I lightheartely alter any original material in my campaign.

Interesting position. I must say, however, that if find such work as the Book of Regency far more trustworthy than a lot of the tings published BEFORE the collapse. Even the BR box and the Roesone Secrets have contradictions...and some of the Secrets books are just plain crap (not that they are not approved or whatnot, they are just plainly poorly designed, written and edited).

As for Blood Spawn in particular, it is certainly a bit odd in places. But is holds too much good stuff for BR to be ignored completely (such as interesting bits and pieces of cosmology).

[Green Knight]

I'd say that Azrai is clearly EVIL. I think there is no doubt about that.

As for Law-Chaos, there are strong indications that he was big on chaos, corruption and deceit. However, he also seemed quite keen on recruiting followers and making empires to worship him. Maybe overall a bit more Chaos than Law.

Overall I'd say his EVIL is so great that the Law-Chaos part is of less interest; so if I need one alignment I'd say NE.

[Green Knight]

I like putting Azrai in Hades. It sounds about right - bleak and hopeless - perfect for an evil god that wants to rule the world.

Carceri is also a good place for the Lost to have been imprissoned. Now some of them have wormed their way back to Cerilia by way of the Shadow World.

[irdeggman]

Keep in mind that the Atlas is written `by' Calidhe Dosiere. It's an in-game explanation.

-Fizz

And that I think is the best explanation for any apparent contradictions. The Atlas is merely "stories" told by an individual from a strongly human- Anuirean viewpoint.