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  1. #1
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    I uploaded some stuff ...

    Hi everyone!
    I don't really post on these boards, but I read them all the time. Thanks to all of you for giving me some really great ideas :-)

    I'm running my second Birthright Campaign now, and as usual, I'm always looking for a good way to keep track of all the different domains. As yet, I have not found any good computer aids to help me, but I did find the book1.xls (uploaded by stv2brown1988) in the downloads section.

    As I started filling in some of the information for different domains, Ghoere, Roesone, and Illien, I had to add some more fields and expand on the macro to incorporate more then just the basic holdings.

    I'd like to have some folks take a look at what I've done, and give me some ideas about whats missing and what needs to be added.

    I have attached what I've finished so far, to the message in a zip file. Before I do anymore, I'd like to see what other people think, and modify the spreadsheet appropriatly. I've uploaded these files to Birthright.net as well, but it'll take a bit to get them approved.

    ~phaedrus
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
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    Wow, that's pretty impressive. But I'm not sure I buy your macros entirely. I'd like to see what they do.

    For instance, your Ilien sheet gives 0 RP collection. I know that is incorrect.

    I'd like to see if you can do law claims on select holdings or not. Maybe per province, although that will get trickier I admit.

    But this is a great start! Having something like this for every realm would totally rock, especially once I figured out how to manipulate information as things change in a game.

  3. #3
    Hi there,

    I'm very impressed by your province spreadsheet, but I'm a bit of a numpty when it comes to Macros etc.

    Just wondering if there's an easyish way to convert your sheet to run in a non-standard Birthright setting. I think what I'm actually asking is if you have a blank template of this file, which I can use to track each of the realms in my homebrew campaign.

    As a guide, each regent will control 2-3 provinces, which your spreadsheet seems to support, but where it breaks down is when I rename the file to the new realm name. It looks to be that your macro has a specific reference to the filename, but changing the filename in the debugger window causes the macro to throw up errors elsewhere.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks

    Simon

  4. #4
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    Sorry for the delay Pinky, I just uploaded a blank domain sheet, hopefully this is what you were looking for.

    ~phaedrus

  5. #5
    It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with domain tracking . . . . But, some elements of my "game philosophy" have been used by other DMs:

    PHILOSOPHY

    * All existing holdings at the start of the game are assumed to have been established legitimately.

    * Vassalage does not mean that the liege has the right to remove his / her vassals from their lands at will. In game terms, it is a loose arrangement -- similar to the historical situation between England and France.

    * Law holdings held by regents who do not rule the realm represent special rights / privileges / titles / estates which have been earned.

    * Temples are not subject to taxation. Regents cannot claim a cut of the tribute offered to the gods.

    * Guilds represent fraternities of traders and craftsmen -- organized along lines similar to that of the Skulls / the Freemasons. Historical levels of taxation are determined by the Dungeon Master.

    * Wizards are reclusive, immortal characters with a detatched perspective. They rarely stir themselves from their scholarly pursuits and involve themselves in the day-to-day affairs of mortals -- preferring to wait and let things sort themselves out naturally over an extended period of time.

    * Regents do not have the right to grant / revoke charters at will. Arbitrary confiscation of property will result in a widespread popular revolt.

    * Anuire is extremely enthocentric. Elves, druids, and foreigners are evil. Democracy, civil liberties, and naturalism are foreign concepts. Adopting an "enlightened" philosophy in an area without the appropriate social / cultural framework will result in a widespread revolt.

    * Alignments and previous misdeeds are not common knowledge. Players who assume bad intent without proper cause may have to deal with difficulties caused by advisors, lieutenants, and henchmen who are not working with the same out-of-character knowledge.

    * Do not expect die rolls without consequences. Contest / seizure actions mean that nasty tactics are being employed against one's rivals to gain the upper hand.

    * Players represent the institution rather than any specific character. They should be prepared to play or deal with conflicting factions within that institution.

    * Assasination attempts against regents will probably fail. Regents are expected to have elaborate measures in place to ensure their own personal protection.

    * Even if an assasination attempt succeeds, a player can continue running his domain as a relative or heir. They are running the institution not the character. Only a concerted campaign to systematically eliminate all relatives and heirs can eliminate a player.

    These are areas where there is often discussion and disagreement -- amongst even veteran players. So, It's helpful to spell things out at the beginning of the game so that people know where you're coming from.

    I have a lot of rules adaptations too, but those require a lot more consideration. And, they haven't been play-tested.

    I've basically been trying to reconcile the differences between the prices in the 3.5 edition handbooks / stronghold builder's guide with Birthright economics.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Sorry for the delay Pinky, I just uploaded a blank domain sheet, hopefully this is what you were looking for.

    ~phaedrus

    Thanks Phaedrus!

    Seasonal Greetings to you!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Harrison
    * Temples are not subject to taxation. Regents cannot claim a cut of the tribute offered to the gods.

    * Wizards are reclusive, immortal characters with a detatched perspective. They rarely stir themselves from their scholarly pursuits and involve themselves in the day-to-day affairs of mortals -- preferring to wait and let things sort themselves out naturally over an extended period of time.

    * Regents do not have the right to grant / revoke charters at will. Arbitrary confiscation of property will result in a widespread popular revolt.
    I agree with everything you have said, except for the above. What is your reasoning behind it? Temples not paying taxes? Wizards being immortal? No charters? I understand there should be impacts for doing things, these just seem arbitrary, not meaning offense. Just curious why.

  8. #8
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    I agree with Autarkis that those 3 don't make much sense.

    1: Secular vs Religious authority is one of the great conflicts. You can't just cripple the secular side. I mean, how can you force a regent to NOT send in his troops and clean out the coffers of a church?

    2: I don't know of anything in the BR rules that would make wizards automatically immortal? Why should they be?

    3: If the regent is the absolute authority of the land, why can't he grant at will? Of course their should be consequences to that, but that should be the regent's choice.


    Just my opinion...

    -Fizz

  9. #9
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    I would note that temple income is not simply contributions by the faithful, for example historically the Roman Catholic and Anglican churches in England owned vast amounts of land (collecting rent on the quarter days of Lady Day, Midsummer, Michaelmas and Christmas), sold indulgences (a 'get out of jail free card' for committing sins - often bought in advance) collected money in penance for sins committed, convinced the elderly to sign-over assets in exchange for prayers in the afterlife, sold religious artefacts and consumables, etc - many of those actions are eminently taxable.

    An Anuirean church of course might refuse to pay taxes, and if strong enough could possibly survive doing so, but even if this was nominally the practice, a wise priest would pay 'rent' for use of property, and 'contributions' towards the maintenance of an army in amounts equivalent to taxation that would otherwise be due - certainly the aid of a law holder can be decisive in domain play and such aid rarely comes free.

    I would note that law holdings can also include bandits and could also represent private militia's - a church could also easily have religous laws that were enforceable and collect taxes, etc.

    I typically treat all the realms as ethnocentric and superstitious - few areas will lynch a stranger on sight (flagrant wizardry being a possible exception in some areas or offensive elven-ness) but the typical D&D 'grab-bag' party should be very rare in a Cerilian setting imho.

    I'm not sure why wizards should be immortal, but this is a fairly minor effect that can easily be remedied locally with a stake, some faggots and a few casks of oil if the wizard gets uppity. Elves are immortal so immortality for wizards would simply emphasize their distance from normal humans.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    I'm going to step out on a limb, and talk about game mechanics over real life scenarios.

    Province holding income, to me, represent the regents private holdings in the province (land, others), General Taxation (may or may not include a direct tax on the church), and then special taxes, which could be for titles, or anything really. If you increase your tax rate you could be seizing land, or increasing taxes, taxing new sources of income, etc.

    Law holding income, to me, tarrifs, road fees, and other fees that are generally considered a cost of doing business, as well as local taxes of any sort. It can also represent protection money or banditry on the illegal side. I'm sure there is more I'm not thinking of.

    Temple incomes represent more than just tithes, IMO. It can be incomes from lands owned, fees for activities (education, ceremonies, etc) and as was eluded to earlier fees for granting titles within the church and incomes from assets left to the church for favors in the afterlife.

    Guild incomes, to me, are a combination of legal and illegal activity. Protection money, union dues, cut of profits from all types of legal and illegal activity. As well as direct income from sources the guilder personally owns.

    Activities like seizing a churches assets is more of a seize action by a law holding, and/or Contest action than a tax, IMO.

    As for granting or revoking charters at will, law and province holders most certainly do. There may be consequences, especially if dealing with another regent they would need to make a contest action, or possibly even seige to reduce the holding to 0 and destroy it. Even when not dealing with regents, these types of actions may increas the chance of a "Great Captain" event if an event is rolled. (IE you could just explain the great captain as the person displaced by the revoked charter)

    I think the rules handle this type of stuff fairly well.

    For the most part I agree with the Philosophy of Nicholas Harrison. I think we define things a little differently, which can make a huge difference in how the campaign runs, but for the most part we are on the same page.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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