Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    182
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Blood Score - Needs Clarification

    In the Playtest, you had a stat/ability called Blood Score, and all your scion abilities and such were based on it.

    Under the revised rules, you double this ability to find your blood score, but in many places the way things are handled is not clear.

    First off, I think a distinction needs to be made between the different Blood Scores. I think the ability should be the Blood score, and the the doubling, which all powers and collections are based on, should be called Blood Points. I can't express how strongly i think this distinction should be made for clarity's sake. There is a distinction made in the Bloodline score rules text on page 8 of chapter 2, but that is the last time it is referenced as far as I can tell. There the rules reference Bloodline Power is determined by Blood Score, but even the chart references Blood Score instead of Bloodline Power.

    I use Blood Score and Blood Points in my campaign, and for simplicity and clarity, I will use those terms here.
    Blood Score = The stat that is rolled
    Blood Points = The points used to determine regency collection, and Blood abilities. Generally Double the Blood Score.

    This is particularly confusing when it comes to the Scion classes, which get +4 Blood Score per level. Since this is the same ammount that was given in the playtest with the LA Templates, I assume it goes to the Ability, but it isn't clear, and if I hadn't read the playtest I would have assumed they went to the Blood Points.

    Another area I am genuinely confused about is Usurpation. If you manage to gain blood score from usurpation, is it actually Blood Score, or Blood Points? I assumed Blood Points, since that is how the 2E rules worked, and the difficulty seems to be based on Blood Points.

    On the same point, after character creation, if you increase Blood Points, does your blood score increase also (1 Blood Score (every even) for every 2 Blood points), or are they semi-independant?
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    This is particularly confusing when it comes to the Scion classes, which get +4 Blood Score per level. Since this is the same amount that was given in the playtest with the LA Templates, I assume it goes to the Ability, but it isn't clear, and if I hadn't read the playtest I would have assumed they went to the Blood Points.


    No it is bloodline score. The scion classes give “other” benefits which serve to balance out the “class level”. Benefits like hit points, BAB/saving throw bonuses, skill points (and some that are now forever class skills – never underestimate the value of that one), etc.



    On the same point, after character creation, if you increase Blood Points, does your blood score increase also (1 Blood Score (every even) for every 2 Blood points), or are they semi-independant?


    You no longer have an ability score for blood after character creation so you can not increase its value when gaining levels (i.e., the every 4th level ability score increase). In the sanctioned Chap 1 (and 2) the “phantom” ability used for bloodline score determination deliberately has no name. This was done to avoid confusion as to whether or not is treated like a regular ability. This “number” is only used at character creation, after that point it is gone and the system much more closely follows the 2nd ed mechanics and terminology (well there was a lot of mixed use terminology in 2nd ed – gotta love that quality control in editing back then).

    I'll address the first part in my next post.
    Last edited by irdeggman; 09-07-2006 at 09:39 AM.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Another area I am genuinely confused about is Usurpation. If you manage to gain blood score from usurpation, is it actually Blood Score, or Blood Points? I assumed Blood Points, since that is how the 2E rules worked, and the difficulty seems to be based on Blood Points


    The mechanic used for usurpation is RP. Blood score is converted to RP when the scion is slain. To increase a scion’s blood score the RP required is the target number (or the present number plus 1). This is the same number used to increase it via wise rule to be consistent. In 2nd ed that was also the number used to increase the score (actually it was sometimes called strength then) via wise rule.

    Adding a new term (BP) will, IMO, only provide for more confusion since RP is already a defined term that is clearly tied into bloodlines.

    During usurpation it works like this (summarized):

    Slain scion has his bloodline score converted to RP (at a rate of 5 x bloodline score number).

    This spreads out in a radius equal to 1 foot for every RP generated.

    The scions within this radius start to absorb the RP.

    The max a given scion can absorb is equal to his limit (see note at table 2-3 for regency reserve) and is equal to twice his blood score.

    This is used to up his blood score to the next number (remember the number needed to raise it is the target number or the present number plus 1).

    If the RP that he absorbs is less than twice his blood score then he gains the RP instead and can add it to his reserve (always maintaining the limit on the reserve so any extra merely passes back into the ground).
    Duane Eggert

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    In the Playtest, you had a stat/ability called Blood Score, and all your scion abilities and such were based on it.

    Under the revised rules, you double this ability to find your blood score, but in many places the way things are handled is not clear.

    First off, I think a distinction needs to be made between the different Blood Scores. I think the ability should be the Blood score, and the the doubling, which all powers and collections are based on, should be called Blood Points. I can't express how strongly i think this distinction should be made for clarity's sake. There is a distinction made in the Bloodline score rules text on page 8 of chapter 2, but that is the last time it is referenced as far as I can tell. There the rules reference Bloodline Power is determined by Blood Score, but even the chart references Blood Score instead of Bloodline Power.



    First off forget what was in the playtest document it will only confuse you.

    The very use of an actual ability score caused a huge split in the masses on the forum which is essentially why things went the way they did in the sanctioned version.

    Chap 2 defines what each term is.

    Bloodlines have three primary characteristics. A scion's bloodline derivationn (Anduiras (And), Azrai (Az), Basaïa (Ba), Brenna (Bre), Masela (Ma), Reynir (Re), or Vorynn (Vor)) specifies the old god whose divine power flows in the veins of his family. A scion's bloodline strength (minor, major, great, or true) describes the purity of the scion's family's bloodline. A scion's bloodline score describes the power of a specific scion's divine essence. The manifestations of a bloodline are known as blood abilities.


    There are three components to a bloodline.

    Derivation (Anduiras, Azrai, etc.)
    Strength (minor, major, great, true)
    Score (the numerical value)

    Those are the only 3 terms you need to know to describe a bloodline.

    RP (Regency Points) is the commodity used to spend the power derived from a bloodline. This is mainly used in domain level of play but it comes into the equation when raising a scion’s blood score either via wise rule or usurpation.

    Duane Eggert

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lacalfiusa
    Posts
    110
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Altho' you can point to the rules and make your explanation clear, the rules don't do that in and of themselves.

    I, too, thought that the 3d6* Blood ability rolled was an ability that was kept as such, and that the Score was a separate number.

    (* or 4d6, or however you want to generate it.)

    The reasons for this, searching my memory, are as follows...

    1) It's generated as an ability, and "all" abilities are 3d6 (or whatever)
    2) It's listed/introduced with the abilities, and abilities usually run in the 3-20 range, not 6-45+.
    3) Except when poisoned/etc, abilities don't get reduced/spent/etc.

    Now, there are, as has now bee pointed out, endless clarifications within the rules. But perhaps there needs to be a very clear, declarative comment regarding this?

    We aren't the dullest pencils that will come out of the box. But between pre-conceptions, quick reads, echoes of other games- maybe this "new concept" should be made painfully clear? A little over-kill might not be a bad thing for such a crucial element of the game.

  6. #6
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Moschato, Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,130
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    That is a decent request; now, I suppose that the term "ability score" can be confusing (and I dislike its use, partly due to the fact that a defining attribute of d20 is the existence of the classic 6 ability scores), so we should avoid the use of the word "ability," right? After all, there also are Seeming and Perception scores in regard to the Shadow World, and we can have all characters running around with 9 ability scores, can we?

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuchulainshound
    Now, there are, as has now been pointed out, endless clarifications within the rules. But perhaps there needs to be a very clear, declarative comment regarding this?

    We aren't the dullest pencils that will come out of the box. But between pre-conceptions, quick reads, echoes of other games- maybe this "new concept" should be made painfully clear? A little over-kill might not be a bad thing for such a crucial element of the game.
    Good point.

    IIRC someone had made a comment about adding a sort of checklist that outlines the character creation process. IMO this is probably the "best" way to handle that. It would serve as a 1 page handout that can be more or less readily referenced. It can be added to the "back" of the BRCS like table summaries in other "products".

    I was also thinking a variant inclusion checklist (like in Unearthed Arcana) would be useful. That is a tool for keeping track of which variants are being used in a specific game.

    What do people think on these?

    Are they a good way to go to make things easier to follow?
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lacalfiusa
    Posts
    110
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Lemme re-read chap's 1 & 2 as currently revised, and I'll post in a few.

  9. #9
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Moschato, Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,130
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I would suggest that the character creation process be included near the beginning of the book (see how the PHB handles it; a similar way to look at it includes the Alternity Fastplay rules you can find for free online); the inclusion thingy a-la Unearthed Arcana is a marvelous idea, but the variants should be grouped both by chapter and by children topics (like: Chapter X, Topic Y, Variant Z1, Variant Z2, Variant Z3, etc. kind of nested checklist).

  10. #10
    What do people think on these?

    Are they a good way to go to make things easier to follow?
    Yes. Some kind of quick and dirty summery sheet would be very, very much appreciated. The Blood Score's complex enough that I found myself re-reading the information and the tables to figure out if it was randomly determined or not-while its important to have detail, having a reminder sheet makes the problem of the detail getting one's wires crossed go away without sacraficing the important fluff/filler/information.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.