Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 59
  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    125
    Downloads
    81
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ploesch
    Let's not forget, investing a Bloodline is no small matter. It takes a standard Domain Action, A willing priest and a bit of money.

    In the end, I think the rules handle the Mechanics of doing such a thing, it should be left up to the GM if they want to allow it to happen in their campaign, and the consequences of such action.

    I think at this point we are going around in circles, those who like it are fighting for it, and those that don't like it are fighting against it.
    True. I never said it wouldn't be an expensive proposition. However, non-blooded folks could do it, albeit extremely rarely. Sure, there aren't 20th level experts running around. However, 3rd level experts may be somewhat common - and, if they continue to have amassed wealth through the family business for a few generations, the clan patriarch may just be able to set it up for one of their grandchildren, or great grandchildren, to buy a bloodline, perhaps even a title. It may almost bankrupt the family, but could buy the "respect" that they never had before.

    Well, thanks for the feedback, folks. Don't think it will happen, or be visible in the campaign I am running now, but perhaps one in the future.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    182
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by epicsoul
    ....I never said it wouldn't be an expensive proposition. .....
    I was just pointing out that it's not as easy as your Bloodline for your children, or any other threat that might happen. If it was that easy, well, you got the kids right? They'd likely be easier to coerce.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  3. #23
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    If a line of wealthy merchants wants to be blooded, I tend to presume that the normal way of doing this would be for their heir to marry one of the later offspring of a minor noble family. No matter how greedy and corrupt the merchant, I propose that he would rather do this - "purchase" a bloodline for his descendants than do something so unnatural as to but a bloodline outright and have it invested.

    Moreover, I fundamentally disagree about the attitude of scions with regards to their bloodline. I think even a poor 4th son of a minor noble would hardly even contemplate such a transaction, let alon think of it himself. Giving up your bloodline would be like selling you soul - which is not something most people would. After all, the gods gave men souls, and scions bloodlines. Who are mortals to meddle in the divinely ordanied way of things...

    This is a bit Anuireocentric (as a most of my scriblings), but I see similar if not identical mechanisms for other cultures. A mighty Vos warrior would never BUY a bloodline. He would SEIZE it by force. Might makes right in Vosgaard, and no warrior worth his axe would even contemplate buying a bloodline (and the priests of Beilinik would likely censure such actions severly IMO).
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    440
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    In a message dated 9/7/06 10:21:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

    << Green Knight wrote:
    If a line of wealthy merchants wants to be blooded, I tend to presume that
    the normal way of doing this would be for their heir to marry one of the later
    offspring of a minor noble family. No matter how greedy and corrupt the
    merchant, I propose that he would rather do this - "purchase" a bloodline for his
    descendants than do something so unnatural as to but a bloodline outright and
    have it invested. >>

    I think this is more likely to happen, as it is certainly less messy than
    trying to buy a bloodline outright. It is also more in line with the
    dynasty-building element that lurks below the surface of BR.
    Which raises another question, definitely social: how common are arranged
    marriages? Anyone do much with that in their games?

    Lee.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    440
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    In a message dated 9/7/06 10:21:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

    << Green Knight wrote:
    If a line of wealthy merchants wants to be blooded, I tend to presume that
    the normal way of doing this would be for their heir to marry one of the later
    offspring of a minor noble family. No matter how greedy and corrupt the
    merchant, I propose that he would rather do this - "purchase" a bloodline for his
    descendants than do something so unnatural as to but a bloodline outright and
    have it invested. >>

    I think this is more likely to happen, as it is certainly less messy than
    trying to buy a bloodline outright. It is also more in line with the
    dynasty-building element that lurks below the surface of BR.
    Which raises another question, definitely social: how common are arranged
    marriages? Anyone do much with that in their games?

    Lee.

  6. #26
    Junior Member nagebenfro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    17
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    every marriage that has occured in our games in Aberdeen has been arranged, if that is any help.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lacalfiusa
    Posts
    110
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ploesch
    I think at this point we are going around in circles, those who like it are fighting for it, and those that don't like it are fighting against it.
    With the possible exception of GK, I didn't feel anyone is "fighting" for or against it. I think it's generally agreed that it's certainly possible, not "inconceivable", but there are a lot of obstacles, both practical and social. We're just exploring the possibilities/ramifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Knight
    If a line of wealthy merchants wants to be blooded, I tend to presume that the normal way of doing this would be for their heir to marry one of the later offspring of a minor noble family. No matter how greedy and corrupt the merchant, I propose that he would rather do this - "purchase" a bloodline for his descendants than do something so unnatural as to but a bloodline outright and have it invested.
    A point not without merit. Altho' we've already pointed out that historical parallels are not exact, merchants often "married up", and that would be a way for a "line" to gain blood ties, (or for a truly wicked conniver to place themselves in a position to "inherit" the bloodline?)

    But for the selfish, impulsive, unscrupulous person who wants it "now", for themselves, regardless the consequences... (and there certainly are folk like that out there; and more in fantasy stories than RL.)

    Moreover, I fundamentally disagree about the attitude of scions with regards to their bloodline. I think even a poor 4th son of a minor noble would hardly even contemplate such a transaction, let alon think of it himself. Giving up your bloodline would be like selling you soul...
    But we aren't always talking about just nobles, and nobody said it was a general attitude, but up to the individuals- and those vary across the board. Fantasy stories (which is the realm we inhabit in this discussion!) are in fact full of folk "selling their souls"- they usually regret it, and everyone else sees it as a huge mistake, but they just keep doin' it!

    Furthermore, those same fantasy stories are equally full of stunningly ingenius evil forces, who apply incredibly precise pressure at the right time to the right person... and how many of those same scions, blooded or not, would lose their children, their entire lineage, rather than give up their bloodline? What father, mother, wouldn't be tempted to "sell their soul" to save their children?

    Offensive? Absolutely. Painful? No doubt. But "out of the question"?... not in this world, not in most. Ymmv.

  8. #28
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Now we are getting somewhere. Now the sale of a bloodline is less of a trade of commodities, and instead a dark and angst-ridden story device.

    The general rule that sales do not occur, or are generally even considered, gives rise to MANY excellent plot items, with one example:

    The Vos warlord who didn't actually seize his lineage for himself, but had a few Khinasi "merchants" bring him a young girl, kidnapped from her family, and not stabbe through the heart directly, but having a cast-out priest of Beilinik transfer the bloodline in return for favours. Later that priest suddenly becomes a very important figure, even a regent priest, in the realm of the Vos warlord, and they share a dark secret. If this ever comes out, the warlord will be disgracd, and his growing "empire" will fall appart, and the priests of Belinik will fall upon them both with a vengenance. Oh, and maybe the girl isn't killed outright, but left in the snow to die of exposure or to be eaten by wolves, only to be found and nurtured by a priestess of Kriesha. And so on.

    The actual mechanics I think work well enough, and I'm sure such things do happen, I just wanted to point out the difference between thinking it a commodity rather than something truly special and unique.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lacalfiusa
    Posts
    110
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Ah- no, I agree with you on that point, that for any regent to seek to sell their bloodline would require an exceptionally debased and desperate individual, rare to the point of dubiousness.

    But that raises another question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 2, under "Bloodline Strength
    ...Minor bloodlines are usually descended from less or non-famous figures that were present at Deismaar. Thousands of common foot soldiers and camp followers survived the battle to perpetuate minor bloodlines. Most scions (65%) have a minor bloodline. Scions of minor bloodlines generally have low bloodline scores...
    Are there blooded families who have never lived up to their potential, who remain anonymous, or ingorantly content to be the traditional local head-family of some small backwater burg where their ancestor camp-follower* retired after the battle of Deismar? It states that it wasn't until "after" the battle that the effects became known. Does every blooded line have a history of aspiring to be Regents, in the BR sense? Could there be some "lost" lines out there?
    (* With the term "camp-follower", some would be neither educated, socially significant, nor particularly motivated. The blooded prostitute, hill-billy muleskinner or scullery maid... accidents of fate.)

    Scions with up to 19 bloodscore have no blood abilities, and with the current "scion level" rules, if they don't know, how would they ever? Dreams, destiny, fate aside... practically speaking, could small, minor bloodlines be scattered about the back-country?

    (If so, they may not even know exactly what it is that they have. Altho' destiny "should" have a way of promoting them to their "proper" station, maybe they've been passed by somehow.)

    And would they know the value, much less potential, of what lies hidden within them?

  10. #30
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    The way I see it, bloodlines are there from birth, but need not manifest much until the child is older. How old can vary. I tend to go for a gradual strengthening, so that the full power of a bloodline need not manifest until well into adult age, but it will be at least "visible" by young adult stage.

    I imagine the great noble families nuturing the divine spark in their children, telling them of the legendary powers of their lineage and havign the practice/whatever their powes. They also have the stronger lines, so they manifest more readily.

    But yeah, on the flip side of that coin, I can readily see such things as you describe having a place in the tapestry of Cerilia.
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.