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  1. #1
    Senior Member marcum uth mather's Avatar
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    help with a Baruk Azik campain

    So I will hopefully be starting a campaign were the central story will revolve around a orog siege of Baruk Azik. But I was thinking, how they would even do it. In other games, the dwarves have underground farms, which I assume will carry over into this game ( woo delicious cave mold, how I love thee) so the dwarves could simply close up shop. Any incite that could help me in a mass combat scenario would be great. Thanks in advantage. the cry Havok ruled dont seem to aply when there are no walls to bash in, because the walls are half mile thick moutain.

  2. #2
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    On 8/29/06, marcum uth mather <brnetboard@birthright.net> wrote:
    > marcum uth mather wrote:
    > So I will hopefully be starting a campaign were the central story will revolve around a orog
    > siege of Baruk Azik. But I was thinking, how they would even do it. In other games, the
    > dwarves have underground farms, which I assume will carry over into this game ( woo
    > delicious cave mold, how I love thee) so the dwarves could simply close up shop.
    > Any incite that could help me in a mass combat scenario would be great. Thanks
    > in advantage. the cry Havok ruled dont seem to aply when there are no walls to
    > bash in, because the walls are half mile thick moutain.

    Are you asking for advice on how to bring about a pitched battle? Or
    just general campaign advice?

    In general, no, the dwarves probably cannot just close up shop. There
    are several dwarven stronghold/cities spread throughout the kingdom.
    They need to stay in communication somehow, or any advantage they have
    in numbers is lost.

    Any given dwarven stronghold probably is not entirely self-sufficient.
    The mines they use for raw materials, the fields in which they grow
    surface crops, the villages they have built on the surface to tend
    goats or sheep or fishing outposts, and many other things are not
    contained within a stronghold.

    Additionally, each dwarven stronghold probably specializes in some
    product- one produces luxury goods for trade to the outside, one makes
    pottery and other ceramics, one houses many smiths. This will tend to
    happen because specialization makes sense economically- accumulate
    talent of a certain type in a small area, and they`ll do better than a
    similar number of people spread throughout the kingdom. These cities
    need each other, that`s why they are a kingdom.

    It`s possible that the dwarves have subterranean roads that securely
    link all their cities. It`s not likely, though. A subterranean road
    is much more effort than a surface road. They will tend to flood,
    since they`re probably below the water table of the region. They
    might cave in, and then you`re stuck going on the surface anyway. The
    whole road would be succeptible to infiltration, because it`s a long,
    unguarded tunnel.

    All these factors will tend to force the dwarves to not abandon their
    surface. So, if the orogs are on the surface, battle is inevitable.

    Additionally, orogs should be masters of mining and sapping. Even if
    the dwarves are able to seal themselves into their strongholds, the
    orogs will besiege those strongholds one at a time and mine their way
    in to get at the dwarves. There may not be a massive, flat-field,
    maneuver battle, but there will definitely be desperate sorties from
    hidden gates, mining and counter-mining by the orogs and dwarves,
    tunnel to tunnel battles once the orogs break in, stealthy missions to
    notify nearby strongholds that your city is under siege, and hard
    marches by doughty warriors to break that siege with axe and pike.

    Have fun!

    --
    Daniel McSorley

  3. #3
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Great advice Dan, I can't add anymore, that was everything I would have suggested.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  4. #4
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Baruk Azhik

    I too suppose that the dwarves cannot cut themselves off indefinatly. They must rely on surface sources of food and communication. This serves two purposes. First, it allows me to employ normal understandings of how the world works. Alternate explanations have to be well thought out to be coherent and sensible so that I don't accidentaly build absurd or game busting situations into the game. All this effort might be worth while, but for reason #2. This second reason is that a dwarven realm is only fun to play if the other realms can inflict harm on you. If you are invulnerable, because you have these cool resources like unlimited underground food, and impenetrable defenses, then there is no risk, and little fun. I'll grant the dwarves some food from fungus and other underground sources, but this is a mere augmentation of the stocks taken in every year from the surface. I'll grant the dwarven character well suited to managing large granary systems, so a supply of food is stored that is well beyond what a human might stock in a castle. I'll grant the defences of the dwarves mountainous, briliantly erected, and dug deep into the mountains. However, if its never necessary for the dwarves to fight to break a siege, defend a fortification, or harrass an enemy, then the realm holds little challenge.

    The way I structured the realm, when I had players in Baruk-Azhik, was that it was so pressed upon by enemies, especially the orogs, that all parts of society, temples, guilds, law, and land, had to cooperate to keep the walls seccure and the threat at bay. Far from being invulnerable, the realm was threatened to the breaking point. This is hardly an original interpretation, the PS paints the same kind of picture.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

  5. #5
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    If they have underground roads, and are self sufficent, then what about letting the attacker get in to the caves? They could breach a gate, dig down to where they know a road is. This could be alot of fun as this would me major undertakings by the attacker that the defender would se comming but not be able to stop unless they are willing to leave their caves.

    A bligth land might ruin enough of this seasons crops that they are forced to the surface to gather emergancy food supplies.

    The illojal dwarf that opens the front gate for a chest of gold and a few beers. Or maybe the enemy has his family...

  6. #6
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Why not do away with the all-underground dwarves? Let them have sheep and goats in the mountain valleys. Let them relay on trade with the outside world much many of the things they need.

    Then I always disliked the throught that dwarves live in the dark, eating fungi and drinking fermented fungi-juice
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  7. #7
    Another thought, based off the existing mechanics. Mountain terrain normally is capped to a province level of 3, but dwarves can get it to 7. That implies that underground farming can support a province level of 4 or less. Over that, the dwarves need to grow food upon the surface.

    However, given one would suspect that surface grown food would be easier to manage (not having to carve out underground tiered caverns), you might say dwarvern realms relying only upon underground farming for province level 4 or lower only generate half cash. IE, underground farming supplements surface grown foods, and it usually is only used when populations reach province level 4 and over.

  8. #8
    That logic isn't necessarily correct. Elves can get forests higher than humans; I doubt that means that they live partly underground.

    I think dwarves are just supposed to be better at exploiting mountain terrain, rather than necessarily implying that they live partly underground.

  9. #9
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    In a message dated 8/30/06 5:33:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

    << cutenfluffy wrote:
    Another thought, based off the existing mechanics. Mountain terrain
    normally is capped to a province level of 3, but dwarves can get it to 7. That
    implies that underground farming can support a province level of 4 or less. Over
    that, the dwarves need to grow food upon the surface.

    However, given one would suspect that surface grown food would be easier to
    manage (not having to carve out underground tiered caverns), you might say
    dwarvern realms relying only upon underground farming for province level 4 or
    lower only generate half cash. IE, underground farming supplements surface grown
    foods, and it usually is only used when populations reach province level 4
    and over. >>

    We need to ask at the same time, what about orogs? It is my
    understanding that they, also, are full-time (or at least part-time) underground dwellers
    in BR. I`m in favor of granting them similar bennies, too.

    Lee.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gazza666
    That logic isn't necessarily correct. Elves can get forests higher than humans; I doubt that means that they live partly underground.

    I think dwarves are just supposed to be better at exploiting mountain terrain, rather than necessarily implying that they live partly underground.
    Whether they live underground isn't at issue (the assumption is yes they do to some extent). To what degree is where the dispute arises, and this because we want to know how well an invader can effectively beseige dwarvern provinces.

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