View Poll Results: What would Medoere do?

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  • Attack Diemed in alliance with the new nation?

    14 19.18%
  • Stay out of it totally, as it doesn't concern them?

    30 41.10%
  • Be jackasses, and make a land grab for... Tier, just because they can

    16 21.92%
  • Other

    14 19.18%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #1

    Poll: Would Medoere attack a nation attacking Diemed JUST to grab some land?

    Hi there, have a theoretical question. Say that Diemed was split in half by rebellion. The rebellious forces eventually force a peace and make a nation in Biliene, Ciliene, and Aerele. Say that this new nation eventually goes to war and is able to attack Diemed again, sending most of its forces into the three remaining Diemedian provinces. Would the LG nation of Medoere, with its LG ruler, take this opportunity to cheer on the people attacking the nation which was always close at war with them, attack this nation to steal a crappy province, stay out of it, or provide aid to the rebellious nation? Poll options and opinions wanted
    Last edited by Arjan; 08-17-2006 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    Only my opinion:

    Historically in even the real world, nations that
    denounce aggression will still take part in it. Just
    because Medeore is ruled by a Lawful Good
    person...well, that makes it even MORE likely to me
    that they would attack.

    Being a Theocracy, perhaps the ruler would think it
    their divine obligation to attack so that more people
    could be "enlightened" or what have you (i.e. Islamic
    empire that sprang from the deserts).

    Removing a potential threat would give even more
    reason to attack...if just to set up a new regime more
    friendly to your own nation (i.e. U.S. invasions of
    Afghanistan and Iraq).

    An attack to simply gain territory is very likely also
    (i.e. Mexican-American War).

    Nations, no matter their "true belief" are prone to
    prey upon neighbors that have one of three things (or
    all three): resources (such as arable land, metals,
    etc.), opposing belief (different form of government,
    religion and etc.) or a weaker military. Nations like
    to flex their pride...don`t care what nation it is.
    Find me a country with the ability to make war on its
    neighbors that hasn`t done so in some fashion and I`ll
    gladly write a book on that country...and promptly eat
    it.


    Anthony Edwards

    --- Mikal <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET> wrote:

    > Hi there, have a theoretical question. Say that
    > Diemed was split in half by rebellion. The
    > rebellious forces eventually force a peace and make
    > a nation in Biliene, Ciliene, and Aerele. Say that
    > this new nation eventually goes to war and is able
    > to attack Diemed again, sending most of its forces
    > into the three remaining Diemedian provinces. Would
    > the LG nation of Medoere, with its LG ruler, take
    > this opportunity to cheer on the people attacking
    > the nation which was always close at war with them,
    > attack this nation to steal a crappy province, stay
    > out of it, or provide aid to the rebellious nation?
    > Poll options and opinions wanted

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  3. #3
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    Diemed revolt

    I'm not sure if Medoere would launch an attack against Diemed. Their nation is still relatively new and while they've consolidated their defenses the High Priestess Enlien would need to secure her own territories. I think we'd have to look at some factors:

    - What is Guilder Kalien's stance on this? Is he allied with Diemed? He does, after all, almost completely control Caerwil. Even if he's neutral he may take the opportunity of Enlien's commitment to war to seize control of Caerwil.

    - Is the IOT involved in this conflict? Chances are both Dieman factions would be loyal to the church and it would remain neutral, however this temple would NEVER allow the Ruornilites control over Haelyn's core lands.

    - Is Avanil supporting Diemed? Avanil and Diemed are staunch allies, in fact some of Moere is held by Prince Avan and his forces occupy some border cities. If Diemed can garner even economic support from Avanil it could muster and maintain the armies to win on two fronts.

    - Who is supporting the rebel provinces? If they stand alone their resources will rapidly dwindle in the face of Dieman military might. If Baron Diem has law holdings or if the IOT is aiding him it wouldn't take much to turn the people on the rebellion.

    Enlien seems to me to be a thoughtful and catious ruler, still new to the throne and her fledgling nation. I would think that it is doubtful she'd act brashly and certainly wouldn't attack Diemed unless guaranteed a victory (or at least a stalemate). Sharing a border with the Spiderfell, a ruler cannot carelessly commit soldiers to a prolonged conflict.
    Last edited by cvgawde; 08-17-2006 at 05:38 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by cvgawde
    I'm not sure if Medoere would launch an attack against Diemed. Their nation is still relatively new and while they've consolidated their defenses the High Priestess Enlien would need to secure her own territories. I think we'd have to look at some factors:
    Technically Medoere isn't attacking Diemed. The situation is another nation, formerely from Diemed, is attacking and winning, and Medoere is attacking the nation beating Diemed for a land grab.

    - What is Guilder Kalien's stance on this? Is he allied with Diemed? He does, after all, almost completely control Caerwil. Even if he's neutral he may take the opportunity of Enlien's commitment to war to seize control of Caerwil.
    Kalien is supposedly neutral.

    - Is the IOT involved in this conflict? Chances are both Dieman factions would be loyal to the church and it would remain neutral, however this temple would NEVER allow the Ruornilites control over Haelyn's core lands.
    The temple is not allowed. this is straight nation verses nation.

    - Is Avanil supporting Diemed? Avanil and Diemed are staunch allies, in fact some of Moere is held by Prince Avan and his forces occupy some border cities. If Diemed can garner even economic support from Avanil it could muster and maintain the armies to win on two fronts.
    Actually its the opposite, as Avanil is trying to take Diemed through political, not military means. He might support Diemed due to the fact that the other nation will plan a more direct control then that Diem had.

    - Who is supporting the rebel provinces? If they stand alone their resources will rapidly dwindle in the face of Dieman military might. If Baron Diem has law holdings or if the IOT is aiding him it wouldn't take much to turn the people on the rebellion.
    Actually the rebel provinces have 3 of the best former Diemedian provinces, and the ruler of them also controls the temple and guild holdings, making him a powerhouse.

    Enlien seems to me to be a thoughtful and catious ruler, still new to the throne and her fledgling nation. I would think that it is doubtful she'd act brashly and certainly wouldn't attack Diemed unless guaranteed a victory (or at least a stalemate). Sharing a border with the Spiderfell, a ruler cannot carelessly commit soldiers to a prolonged conflict.

  5. #5
    I think Enlien is LG and indecisive enough that she would not pre-emptively invade. If Endier, Avanil or neo-diemed invite her into the conflict I think she would join in as the potential benefits are large.

    However, she would need to consider how Ilien and Roesone percieve such an endeavour. The three nations have functioned closely in recent years and they might become sucpicious of an agressive Medoere.

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal
    Kalien is supposedly neutral.
    Kalien is never "neutral". He may (and will most likely) play both sides against each other - but he is always involved in one way or another.


    The temple is not allowed. this is straight nation verses nation.
    No such thing in Birthright. The ties between temples and and the people are too great. They have influence in one way or another and everything is interrelated - which is the huge appeal of the setting itself. No man (ruler) is an island.



    Actually the rebel provinces have 3 of the best former Diemedian provinces, and the ruler of them also controls the temple and guild holdings, making him a powerhouse.
    Then he has the support of the OIT since there is no way he could have gained temple holdings that aren't OIT. They are too powerful to have allowed it to happen.

    Are we factoring in "history" here?

    Per the PS of Medoere it was founded as a place for the church's followers to have a place of their own. As a theocracy dedicated to an isolationist deity (pretty much Rournil's temples are on their own and in not really heavily populated regions - except for Medoere and some locations in Khinasi lands, but even there they are secondary to Avani) - they would likely stand pat.

    Also the "ties" between Modoere, Roesone, Ilien and Aerenwe need to be considered also. They tend to have a sort of mutual protection pact - but that might just be from how I pieced together the PS for those lands.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
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    I would think Medeore would support which ever side is weaker. that is what would serve Medeore the most in geo-political terms. A united Diemed would always be seeking to retake Medeore and is the single greatest long term threat. With Diemed divided in two, neither side would likely be strong enough to retake the lost lands, especially with each side looking over their shoulders at the other half.

    Medeore might try to hide the actions, so as not to create emnity with the likely winner. Also open support of one side of the war, may very lead the OIT to back the other side, for fear of Medeore spreading its faith into Diemed.

    This opinion though is based more on looking at what is in Medeores long term interests rather than looking at the personality of the current leader, which I know nothing of.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman
    Kalien is never "neutral". He may (and will most likely) play both sides against each other - but he is always involved in one way or another.
    Hence why I said supposedly. Odds are he'll be involved somehow.




    No such thing in Birthright. The ties between temples and and the people are too great. They have influence in one way or another and everything is interrelated - which is the huge appeal of the setting itself. No man (ruler) is an island.
    My mistake, I meant to say that, AT THE MOMENT, it's straight nation vs. nation, though the temple might side with Diemed since the OIT would actually lose prestiege if the other side one.

    Are we factoring in "history" here?

    Per the PS of Medoere it was founded as a place for the church's followers to have a place of their own. As a theocracy dedicated to an isolationist deity (pretty much Rournil's temples are on their own and in not really heavily populated regions - except for Medoere and some locations in Khinasi lands, but even there they are secondary to Avani) - they would likely stand pat.
    Exactly what I was trying to hint at for the DM. Outside of the fact that the PC's "displaced" (rather then deposed) the rulers of the realms they're in for their provinces, history is intact.

    Also the "ties" between Modoere, Roesone, Ilien and Aerenwe need to be considered also. They tend to have a sort of mutual protection pact - but that might just be from how I pieced together the PS for those lands.
    I agree with that as well, which is why the theoretical is between Diemed and "Neo-Diemed", without involving them unless they involve themselves.

  9. #9
    Really, if there's going to be chaos in the region, the smart thing to do if you're the Meds is to make some noises like you're going to help one side or the other, move troops up and down your borders, maybe even try and establish a temple or law holding in the place.

    And then when the crazy actualy starts happening, shove Kailen out of your northern provence while everyone else is looking at your neighbors. But I've always believed in securing your own turf before trying to get more-or, at least, making sure someone else doesn't practicly own it.

    Attacking Diemend is just a bad idea-it gives the Baron over there a weaker enemy he's wanted to hit anyway, which'll help him rally political and popular support against the political actions that were causing the unrest in the first place. When someone's playing politics against a warrior-king, the worst thing to do is to give the guy a clear, military threat that he can rally his people around, y'know?

  10. #10
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    As the Former Regent of Medoere, I would have cheered any Friendly Force attacking Diemed. However, being Wise, I would ascertain the motives of Both Parties. If I felt that the upstart nation would eventualy be a threat to my people, then i would certainly go for the easy land grab, even if it meant the upstart nation would be destroyed. Better the enemy you know....

    The rulers of Diemed are Notoriously weak, so I'd rather have Diemed on my Borders than a strong expansionist Ruler.

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