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  1. #1
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    Regent Question - Newbie

    Hey everyone!

    I've new to the boards but have been a long time reader of them. However, I just started reading the book and I have to say it is really well done. It's amazing the amount of work you guys have put into it and it's turned out well enough that I'm trying to tempt my players into trying it.

    I do have a question though and I apologize if it seems dumb and I'm missing something.

    My question is this:

    Can a regent be a regent of more than one thing? Eg. Regent of a Province and Regent of Holdings?

    The reason I ask is that I have a player who wants to be a ruler of a domain but I'm unsure how it works from his standpoint. I'm not sure if he gets to be in control of anything, or if everything is controlled by NPC Regents?

    For example, if I have:

    Province 5
    Law Holding 2
    Guild Holding 2
    Temple Holding 1

    How many regents do I have to have for this realm to work?

    And if there is a Baron, King, Duke that rules over the entire realm, what does he do as the rest of the regents are planning their domain actions?

    Again I apologize if this seems like a stupid bunch of questions. If I'm not being clear enough, I'll rephrase.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    There is no limit to the number or kinds of holdings that a regent can rule over. In fact many regents rule over several different holding types. Province rulers actually need to control Law holdings to maintain their control over provinces and many regents attempt to control guild holdings in order to increase their income.

    There are however restrictions on who can gain RP from source and temple holdings.

    Any character can hold (be a regent of) any province or holding. However, not all regents benefit equally from holding a domain. Unblooded characters cannot gain regency from any holding. Incompetent scions derive less respect from their subjects than their bloodline might allow. Perceived competence is an important factor in regency collection. A regent's ability to effectively manage each of the five major domain components is determined by their ranks in the key skills used in holding the domain component.

    Provinces are held by diplomatic finesse and military prowess. A regent's regency collection rating for provinces is equal to the sum of their ranks in Diplomacy and Warcraft. Most classes have at least one of these skills as a class skill, and thus most characters have equal potential for being a good province regent. Barbarians, rangers, wizards, and sorcerers have neither skill as a class skill, and thus are often ineffective province regents.

    Ruling a guild holding requires a wide number of skills. The character should know their craft (Craft or Profession), the worth of goods, services, and information (Appraise), be a canny trader (Diplomacy), stay well-informed of opportunities and dangers to their market (Gather information), and be capable of driving a hard bargain when necessary (Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense motive). A regent's collection rating for guild holdings is equal to one-fourth the sum of their ranks in Appraise, Bluff, Craft (any one), Diplomacy, Gather information, Intimidate, Profession (any one), and Sense motive. Most character classes can derive some benefit as a guild regent, but rogues, bards, and nobles excel at guildcraft.

    The primary characteristic for success as the regent of a Law holding is the ability to select, train, and effectively lead the forces that enforce a realm's laws and collect taxes and tribute. Although it helps to have a good working knowledge of the Law, the regent of a law holding is rarely a judge or magistrate; these positions are filled by experts that report to the law regent. A regent's collection rating for law holdings is equal to the sum of their ranks in Lead and Warcraft. Fighters and paladins excel as law regents; barbarians, druids, magicians, sorcerers, and wizards make poor law regents.

    Source regents must understand the workings of mebhaighl; both the natural forces that empower it and the arcane rituals necessary to tap into that natural flow. A regent's collection rating for source holdings is the sum of their ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (Nature). Source holdings generate regency only for characters that are capable of casting greater arcane spells of 1st level or higher; characters incapable of learning arcane realm spells have a 0 collection rating for source holdings. Wizards make excellent source regents. Sorcerers, with their more intuitive understanding of magic, are often less apt source regents.

    Temple regents must not only know the rituals and ceremonies of their religions, but must be effective leaders and orators. A regent's collection rating for temple holdings is the sum of her ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and Lead. {b]Temple holdings generate regency only for characters that are capable of casting divine spells of 1st level or higher; characters incapable of learning divine realm spells have a 0 collection rating for source holdings.[/b] Clerics excel as temple regents.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arken2011
    Can a regent be a regent of more than one thing? Eg. Regent of a Province and Regent of Holdings?
    Yes see above.

    The reason I ask is that I have a player who wants to be a ruler of a domain but I'm unsure how it works from his standpoint. I'm not sure if he gets to be in control of anything, or if everything is controlled by NPC Regents?
    A realm is a grouping of holdings. It can be a province or simply a connecton of guild holdings.

    A landed regent is one who controls provinces while an unlanded regent is one who controls only holdings but no provinces.

    For example, if I have:

    Province 5
    Law Holding 2
    Guild Holding 2
    Temple Holding 1

    How many regents do I have to have for this realm to work?
    It is all up to you and how you want to run things.

    Since the province has a rating of 5 it can support Law, Guild and Temple holdings of up to level 5 (in total).

    It can suport up to 2 different regents for each type of holding (not province though - only 1 person can rule a province). See table 5-3 for the maximum number of regents allowed per holding type.

    And if there is a Baron, King, Duke that rules over the entire realm, what does he do as the rest of the regents are planning their domain actions?
    It depends on what holdings he rules, what the holding levels are at and the potential they have for being raised, etc.

    He can raise troops, start and conduct wars, raise (or lower) province level. He can create holdings in provinces he doesn't control in order to spread his influence, etc.

    Again I apologize if this seems like a stupid bunch of questions. If I'm not being clear enough, I'll rephrase.
    There aren't really any stupid questions. There may be stupid people, but I don't think you are one of those (well I don't have enough data to make that conclusion yet )
    Duane Eggert

  4. #4
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    Smile

    Thanks for the answers and the welcome!

    It's starting to become clearer now and I see the great detail behind this system. I really like the premise behind it. I just don't know how to find that delicate balance between just enough detail and too much detail.

    However, I do have one further question.

    So, technically you could have a Baron who is the ruler of a realm, a cleric who rules the temple holdings, and a noble who runs the guild holdings...

    Now, these characters are obviously going to be politcally manuvering, but if it came to blows in within the realm the Baron rules (if one of the holding regents gets greedy), could the cleric or noble raise an army to fight against the Baron? Would they have to pay the Baron Tribute of some sort to run holdings in his province? And finally do they do their own 'domain actions'?

    Also, if I'm reading right, a landed regent could theroetically control a province and holdings if he so chooses (depending on the current political situation of course)?

    Thanks again for the help, it is really helping me!!!
    Last edited by Arken2011; 08-15-2006 at 08:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arken2011
    So, technically you could have a Baron who is the ruler of a realm, a cleric who rules the temple holdings, and a noble who runs the guild holdings...
    Which is the norm for most games by the way. It causes players to work together for mutual survival since a province is not an island and there are other province rulers nearby waiting to move on in - the same with guilders and priests (e.g., temple rulers).

    Now, these characters are obviously going to be politcally manuvering, but if it came to blows in within the realm the Baron rules (if one of the holding regents gets greedy), could the cleric or noble raise an army to fight against the Baron? Or would they have to wrestle his holdings and provinces from him in other ways?
    Yes they would have to wrestle control of holdings in a different manner.

    You can destroy holdings with military occupation but you don't gain the holding levels - you must first establish the bonds to the land and people (via create and rule holding actions).


    Occupy province [Court; 1 GB]

    Regents can, for a small price in realm attitude, bring in their armies and institute martial law. The occupation of a province requires the use of military units. In order to occupy a province, units loyal to the regent must spend an entire month (four war moves) occupying key institutions in the province. If a unit moves or is involved in any battle then it may not occupy the province.
    An occupied province generates no regency income for the province ruler. The normal taxation income goes in part or in full to the occupying regent (1 GB per unit occupying the province). The military forces in a province act as a temporary law holding with a level equal to the number of occupying units. Existing law holdings are reduced (temporarily) by the same amount.
    In addition, each unit may destroy one holding level in the province per month. For example, three units could raze a temple (6) to a temple (0) in two months of occupation. This sort of heavy-handed action has dire consequences on the province’s attitude towards the regent; as such behavior often marks the beginning of realm-wide tyranny.
    This action normally allows for the occupation of one province. Multiple provinces can be occupied (troops permitting) with the expenditure of multiple court actions


    Also, if I'm reading right, a landed regent could theroetically control a province and holdings if he so chooses (depending on the current political situation of course)?

    Yes but dont assume that just because a character is a landed regent or a realm regent he controls everything he wants to. You (the DM) must dish out holdings to players (and NPCs) in way the prevents anyone from havign total control of everything.

    The game (at the domain level) is really about diplomacy and working with other rules towards some sort of common goal. If the game deteriorates into eveyone out for themselves then it will be a bloodbath and I can almost guarantee that most people won't enjoy the game.

    Try approaching the domain level of play like you would the adventure level of play of D&D. The best results are gained when the PCs are working together and not against each other.

    I would recommend attempting to get ahold og the 2nd ed material to get a better idea of the holding breakdowns that exist in the world at the time. I know you can get them as pdf downloads from palces like RPGNow for something like $5 each maybe 10, but I think 5 is closer). They should have pretty decent maps and breakdowns of the holding levels.

    The original box set had Ruins of Empire (which was the Anuire breakdown), Cities of the Sun had the Khinasi, Havens of the Great Bay (Brecht), The Rjurik Highlands (the rjurik lands) and Tribes of the Heartless Wastes had the Vos.
    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
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    Correct me if i'm wrong, but to be provice ruler i don't think it's required to have Law holdings. Yes/no?

    In this case, the person with the Law holdings is probably a vassal or at least allied to the province ruler. He handles all the legal issues, runs the constabulary or equivalent.

    If the Law regent rebels, the province ruler can still strike back. The province ruler always controls the army. The province ruler would occupy his own lands- basically you've got martial law with the military overriding the police.

    So, it's a good idea for the province ruler to control some Law, but it's not actually required.

    Have i got that right?


    -Fizz

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but to be provice ruler i don't think it's required to have Law holdings. Yes/no?
    Correct it is not required, but opposeing regents can use low holding against you - so it is very advantageous to have them.

    In this case, the person with the Law holdings is probably a vassal or at least allied to the province ruler. He handles all the legal issues, runs the constabulary or equivalent.
    Vassels do not run anything for their leige. They are regents in their own right and because of that they can break their oath of fealty (a very real danger for a leige lord that is not maintaining a watchful eye on those he is allied with).

    If the Law regent rebels, the province ruler can still strike back. The province ruler always controls the army. The province ruler would occupy his own lands- basically you've got martial law with the military overriding the police.

    So, it's a good idea for the province ruler to control some Law, but it's not actually required.

    Have i got that right?
    -Fizz
    Pretty much.

    The landed regent has knowledge of the things going on in his lands and has authority to maintain a standing army. The present rules (unlike the 2nd ed ones) do not restrict the type of troops a non-landed regent can raise. But as always this can cause problems with the landed regent.

    Law holdings represent direct control over military and secular political power or what passes for "the law" in a province. Law holdings represent bureaucrats, constables, taxmen, highway bandits, rebel organizations, a system of feudal lords, or any other establishments whose primary purpose is to enforce laws/whims, collect taxes/tribute, and execute justice or injustice in their regent's name. Control of a province's law holding impacts whether edicts and laws are followed, how vigorously laws and taxes are applied, the level of crime, and the general contentment of a province's citizens.


    And the province ruler can appy RP to support or contest actions while non-landed regents are limited to only actions involving holidngs of the same type.

    Regency Points: +1 per RP spent to support, -1 per RP spent to oppose. Regents may spend RP to support or oppose most domain action checks. The province regent and any regent that has any holding of any level in the province in which the domain action is taking place may spend RP to support or oppose the action. There is no limit (save availability) to how many RP may be spent to support or oppose an action
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman
    The landed regent has knowledge of the things going on in his lands and has authority to maintain a standing army.
    According to chapter 6, he cannot in fact raise an army if he doesn't control any law (or guild) holdings. Perhaps he could draft, but he can't actually raise "real" troops - whereas the regent that controlled the law holdings in the province can, and could feasibly use them against the landed regent.

    Have I missed something?

  9. #9
    Junior Member baldric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza666
    According to chapter 6, he cannot in fact raise an army if he doesn't control any law (or guild) holdings. Perhaps he could draft, but he can't actually raise "real" troops - whereas the regent that controlled the law holdings in the province can, and could feasibly use them against the landed regent.

    Have I missed something?
    Now that we are in the subject of "who can raise armies": wouldn't Haelyn's churches be allowed to maintain army units and law holdings, considering their knight's status as "having the power to travel wherever and do whatever they must to execute Haelyn’s justice"?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldric
    Now that we are in the subject of "who can raise armies": wouldn't Haelyn's churches be allowed to maintain army units and law holdings, considering their knight's status as "having the power to travel wherever and do whatever they must to execute Haelyn’s justice"?
    I think it would entirely depend upon the relation of each church to the province ruler. Unless the Province ruler fears immediate attacks (Mhoried) he would probably not want a church controlling large numbers of troops in his realm, and even then would prefer that the church mearly provide financial support for troops he has raised.

    I would say Avanil, seeking to keep a tight reign of the WIT and being in a politically advantageous situation due to the Presence of a major competing church (CJS) would not allow the WIT to have soldiers, but would place significant taxes on the church.l

    Diemed, having been run by many inept rulers, and having lost significant amounts of territory in the recent past, bordering multiple threats and with the OIT controlling all temple holdings (with one big enough to cast interdiction) would probably have granted permission to OIT to muster soldiers.

    So pretty much, a landed regent in a strong position probably would not allow it, but one in a weak position might not have a choice (and thus weaken himself further).
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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